Demigod: What would you do?

By on April 7, 2011 2:55:59 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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This month marks the two year anniversary of Demigod's initial release. It's time to start thinking about its future.

If you had your way, what would you do with Demigod?

For example: For a Demgiod v1.5, what key tweaks would you do in that?

For a Demigod expansion, what would you do in that?

For a Demigod sequel, what would you do in that?

We'd like to hear how you guys would like to see Demigod evolve in the future.

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April 26, 2011 8:22:56 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Holy Sh$t Frogboy is talking again, so glad to see you back!

Ok so I have basically had to give up DG because of the connection issues. I dealt with the lag often while in the states and would still just because the game play is awesome and really out shines most every other pvp game out there when its working, but now across the world i cannot get a connection to more than 3 people it seems. Maybe 4 if they are all from somewhere near by (i've gotten 1 2v2 game since moving to thailand). That said the connectivity has to be worked out and everyone knows that. 

I agree that 12 characters is enough because of the skill tree system (simply a great feature imo). Some trees need to be tweaked so they are a bit more used and tempting to play with though.

If DGII does get made I think it should have a larger variety of viable items. While there are quite a few items in DG really only half of them ever get used and there are some that get used no matter what character you are playing. Putting some love into these forgotten items could make other skill tree options more viable and make the game more interesting. Also new items every now and then is one way i think that up dates could be made simply, attracting the players that LOVE every new shinny thing that comes out, while not having to invent new characters. Having TONS of new characters screams LOL to me and while I play LOL and i like it I don't need or want DG to be that game. DG is already the better game when it is running smoothly. Honestly in LOL i wish i had options as far as my powers with a character like i do in DG. 

The DG character balance needs to be addressed as well if there are only going to be the same 12 character in the future (and i do love the current cast). There is a clear cut (unintentional i'm guessing) tier system of the characters and it really does limit the combination of teams if you want a balanced match. 

A good match making system would be really nice. Connection and match making are pretty much the main reasons i play LOL. Its a cheaper game in terms of actual game play quality but its easy to get a game and lag is not a issue in 90% of them. 

Oh, whoever started the idea of new skins and stuff for accomplishments has a great idea. I would like to have the option of making my fav character look different from other people playing.

I would buy DG II in just about any format as long as I could connect with my friends online. Right now I can't do that and i can in other games. Also plz don't change the game formula too much it really is a great concept that just had a couple of technical issues that truly limited its potential.

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April 26, 2011 10:16:43 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Max you should hop on vent sometime and let us know whats new. Me, soccer, peter, jona, zen are usually on between 10pm-12am USA time so whatever that is for you. Otherwise just open vent up and leave I would love to pm you just to say hi even if your not around.

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April 26, 2011 11:32:17 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Make models importable from verus programs (modo, maya, and blender.)

Create a small group of individuals from demigod community with either programming or artistic abilities to create new free demigods.

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April 26, 2011 11:39:06 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Suppose it would be pushing things a tad to introduce other gameplay genres in to any future sequal and would dilute the basic game mechanics too much. Instead you could just introduce different game types whilst still keeping the main flavour of how demigod basically works. It would almost be enough to have the connection issues sorted, new maps and new characters. I do think you should put all of the old characters in any sequal though along with an equal or more number of new ones.

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April 26, 2011 6:59:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

One thing that I believe has been neglected in this forum is REPLAYS.

Currently the replay system in Demigod is pretty much broken. The replays buttons/UI begin to break after the speed has been touched to many times etc... SC2 and many other games have excellent replay options,management etc.... I would like to see an improved replay system in a Demigod 2.

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April 26, 2011 7:37:43 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG_ZEX,
I would like to see an improved replay system in a Demigod 2.

agreed

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April 27, 2011 2:58:06 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

*Agree on skill tree tweaks. For example at one point I played with using the stats boost tree (increase health, mana and others) but found the buffs too small to be an alternative to spell upgrades. I can't even remember what the boost was, something like +100hp +100mp?? a little (not a lot) more would make this tree viable.

 

Don't know if I agree on combining tower upgrades. Firepower oft gets neglected/ignored, so it's a nice surprise to purchase that while the enemy still thinks your towers are low FP. Also on a related item, the citadel health I think shouldn't be displayed all game as it becomes obvious when the enemy has bought tower healt, (though I guess that becomes obvious under current conditions when attacking a tower).

An idea I had was allowing tower rebuilding. Perhaps have purchaseable items from the citadel like a tower spawn item. Allow this to be used to rebuild a tower that has been destroyed - perhaps when a tower is destroyed have the rubble remain on the map, that way the players can see where the tower can be rebuilt. Another idea I have for towers, is allow the purchase of tower upgrade but what if you could, for a smaller cost, buff an individual tower. For example 100 gold to increase a tower's max health by 5% or similar.

 

 

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April 27, 2011 3:33:19 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

the Sedna and Rook reskin mods were my favorite

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April 27, 2011 7:10:41 AM from Stardock.net (Stardock Games) Stardock.net (Stardock Games)

Hope to see a warcraft 3 "Dday Judgement" MOD in Demigod. Kind of boring with the creep without event of different phase / wave of monster

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April 27, 2011 7:37:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Frogboy! So glad to see you pay attention to us! I think you should go ahead and make Demigod 2. Here are my constructive suggestions for it:

1. Connectivity and Matchmaking need to be great. Lots of people have made a great case here.

 

2. We don't need 50 Demigods. The unique tree customization makes each Demigod way more interesting than any LoL or DotA character. However, there needs to be constant post-game balancing, because we know it's impossible for ANYBODY to get the balancing right from the start. Without consistent post-game balancing, most of the Demigods have tech paths that are not competitively viable, and a lack of choices makes the Demigods less playable and more boring.

 

3. Maps need to be easy to make. 3d maps prevented modding and also prevented you guys from cheaply producing maps. There was really only 1 "fun" map IMO, Cataract. All of the maps had a distinct play feel to them, and the map definitely makes a difference on how fun the game feels. Just think if there were 3-5 fun maps out there and also users generating map content!

 

4. Please don't go overkill on the graphics. Yes, Demigod was absolutely beautiful, but to be honest I would have personally preferred less graphics and more investment in gameplay. That's just me, though. I know others probably disagree.

 

5. PLEASE keep strategic zoom. I really can't play an RTS without it, sadly.

 

6. Demigod serves a niche as a great casual DotA. I don't need to worry about silly things like last-hitting. Please keep it like this!

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April 27, 2011 7:40:11 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Oh I forgot to make another big point.

 

We NEED to be able to play games that don't go on our win records. As it stands, people are afraid to play with noobs because they significantly hurt their chance of winning. Allowing a "fun" option that does not record stats is very important!

 

Since this is a team game, voice support and good chat support are very important.

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April 27, 2011 8:44:34 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG_Epiphenomenon,
5. PLEASE keep strategic zoom

very good point.  This is one of dg's best features imo.  Love it.

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April 27, 2011 9:45:35 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Strategic zoom is my life.

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April 27, 2011 11:38:13 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG_Epiphenomenon,

6. Demigod serves a niche as a great casual DotA. I don't need to worry about silly things like last-hitting. Please keep it like this!

First off I would like to say Epiphenomenon that I agree with everything you said but this line. I believe a games key to success is having a competitive community. The higher the skill cap the more competitive the game is. The hardest games to play (SC) have had the longest running and biggest community and therefore generate the most money.

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April 28, 2011 12:22:25 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Correct me if I'm wrong, but dg doesn't have "standard" last hitting, does it?  I know the last guy that got the hit gets the kill, but anyone that assisted also gets money.  In dota, isn't the only person getting paid the guy that got the kill?

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April 28, 2011 12:34:49 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

   I'm glad you asked, I have dropped in from time to time to see how Demigod has progressed.

With Valve launching DOTA2 in the near future I believe a Demigod 2 would be the better course of the various options.

 I feel trying to fix Demigod 1 would be a waste of resources. The community size doesn't justify an allocation of funds to improve a game  in these stringent times. It also appears that the effort of overhaul/fix required in relation to the connectivity/matchmaking would be better served elsewhere.

There is also the matter of gaming community in general being far more fickle in their choices of online multiplayer. I would rather the Demigod IP be reconstitued in a more cohesive manner than initially occured.

Free to play (F2P ) model from my general reading works well to an extent with microtransactions etc.. The whole genre is heading in the Direction of Free to play. However, F2P requires alot of after launch support and discernable good quality extra content to make it pay. I noticed that the inital uptake of F2P seems to be from subscription based online MMO that fail to retain the mass of players required.

My own experiences with Demigod have been one of extremes. I found Demigod to have a very hostile community from the outset, ( sure there were contributing major issues with connectivity etc..) However there did seem to be an above average amount of  some really nasty people. Be it ingame or out on the forums, these individuals were not properly corraled. Every game needs retention of the hardcore element of course, but its fundamental that the entry of new players is not hindered. Clearly alot of late arrivals were in my opinion treated fairly badly by certain elements of the community. There wasn't any real sense of punishing these individuals who flagrantly treated new players really badly.

I appreciate that alot of the hostility also came about from bad matchmaking, of casuals and pros'..however Demigod seemed to me to be marketed at the 'casual' gamer more than 'pros'. 

*Incorporate a 'Karma' system in game? would tie into the whole 'Godly powers' type. Allows consequence for being an idiot ingame, rather than a pointless 'Hall of shame' thread that no-one wants to have to wade through. Your actions should have reprecussions!

* Very robust connectivity,  it has to work from launch, not a year down the line, those first few months are critical for launch. ( I appreciate the problems you suffered at launch

* Decide what you want Demigod to be, an arena for Hardcore behaviour or Casual behaviour..or both? Create the mechanics of the game accordingly.  As it stands demigod seems a bit confused. ( take a leaf out of Bungie matchmaking on Halo, not perfect but very close)

 

   The game  content  at first glance pretty varied. However, it soon became clear that the most effective item  to have was high HP and HP regen. There just didn't appear to be any subtly after that. Just tank , tank , tank. There wasn't any varied response except to tank yourself in same fashion...where is the fun in that?

The Holy Trinity of DG appeared balanced because they were the DG that could max out their tanks and just plow through the map. I'll assume that still happens? I would want to see a more risk/reward approach implemented. If your a glass cannon, then you should be dealing HUGE scary damage that makes a tank fearfull, not just indifferent. ( pacovs point on sigil use ingame highlights the whole Tank Philosophy)

Demigod 2 would need its mechanics to have real perceptable depth especially in regard to its Items/favours. ( The Favourmod was in the right Direction)

I would keep the current Lineup of DG, maybe as you said increase to 10-12. However there needs to be an overview of the skill tree's. Again its about providing variation on the DG. e.g Make certain  DG skills and items not work in tandem. Epic tank or Epic DPS..not both at same time. Furthermore, The likes of Reg/DA/TB got shamefully sidelined and failed to compete with the Trinity.

*Bring some perceptive depth to the table, That will distinguish Demigod from DOTA2, LOL, HON

* Better application of Items and their use. ( I suggest finding a Seriously Nerdy Warhammer/40K tabletop player to look into this area)

 *More Acute balancing for roles of DG and their uptake and use of items.

 

 I liked the art direction, although Demigod does look like a kind of Fantasy swords and sorcery throwback. I know because it is a sword and sorcery type of game. Does that mean it has to look like that?

 Regulus in trenchcoat, Sedna in S&M gear. Unclean Beast with one of those plastic collars they put on dogs after a visit to the vet?

Also, the Maps..why can't they be in some contemporary or Futuristic settings as well as the Fantasy settings?

Why not make Demigod really stand out from it's competitors, fanatasy,steampunk, futuristic settings. The story can easily make it seem that the tournmant is fought throughout time.

*Vareity on art direction settings. 

*Use other storytelling genres to expand on the gods, and how they look and where/when they fight.

 

In summary Demigod is a fanatstic IP ( one I miss playing)  and one with real potential to compete against whats out in the market. It just needs to tighten it's focus. I would love to see a more edgy feel to the game, a real contrast to the LOL/ HON/Dota format.  Valve has had to go to some lengths with DOTA2. Using a ready IP and give it a rehash and some $$.

You have done the hardwork already, I believe with good cohesive direction the Demigod IP could be a viable alternative to the others.

This may seem extreme but I would like  Demigod to be likened to Eve-Online. Compared with Hon/LOL and  World of Warcraft.  Give the game some  meaningful depth and stratergy, this will set it apart. Make so that the cool kids come to Demigod.

I apolgise for the wall of text, I left Demigod to fester on my shelf ( reinstalled solar empire) and I always felt it should have been more.

 

Ciao

 

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April 28, 2011 12:43:31 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Lets take a look at the other dota based moba's and look at the strengths and weaknesses in comparison to demigod.  I know a lot of things have already been said....

Why demigod is the best Moba:

1.  Zoom & Rotate.  When playing other games this is the one physical mechanic i miss the most. Im surpised Epi was the first one to mention this. (This is also the reason i didn't play LOL lol)

2.  Citadel Upgrades, this feature is just awesome and forces teams to invest in their team. It would be great to have more viable choices in DG2, eliminate the unused ones, and re-balance some of ones that are left.  If you decide to do a patch, it would be nice to have splash damage working correctly.  Thanks Frogboy for adding this mechanic to the game!

3.  Controllable minions for generals. However they need a serious boost of adderall / ritalin in DG2, they should stay put when parked and not wander off.  Also, it would be great to totally fix them getting stuck in the citadel in a patch.   If i remember correctly they were greatly improved in the last patch.  Also their turning rate was changed in the last patch.  This actually didn't work very well.  They only turned slowly when they were player controlled, when their ADDHD kicked in they turned rapidly making them more challenging to control. 

4.  The Graphics.  Hey, we're PC users, not console noobs.  A lot of us love the eye candy and demigod is a beautiful game.  Please don't change that.  Watching the citadel grow though-out the game was cool as well.  The current maps could probably have been done in 3ds Max with similar quality instead of granny.  A lot of people who would create community maps could easily get their hands on Max.  (Students can even get a legit 18 month license for free).  At a minimum just see if the game engine can support map creation from alternative programs (e.g. Stardock / GPG does the maps in Granny, but the engine allows for blender / max from the community etc.)  This could also make the Studio maps look a lot better than community maps. 

5.  The fog of war.  The fog of war is only in enemy controlled territory, which is the way it should be.  I love being able to see our side entirely.  Yea another Dota clone allows for ganks because of fogged paths that are in your territory, and thats one of the many reasons that game sux.

6.  Tower health regen - please don't lose this.

7.  Music  - this was mentioned before, but this is one of the best game soundtracks ever created, it may be even better than master of magic lol. 

8.  Character depth - Demigod has the best character depth of any Moba, we all know this.  It would be great to see some of the same characters in DG2 (well maybe just Oak lol).  It would be nice to have a publisher provided hot coffee mod but i digress.  Anyways, the build choices for each character are a lot of fun.

9.  Point controls.  Having the flag points to control made this game more like chess than anything else.  This is something that shouldn't be lost.  Maybe throw in a castle to make Polynomial happy. Call it a Polycastle where the hot coffee mod could be used.

10.  The pace and speed of the game.  This was great and again, added to the strategy of the game.  Other dota clones make it more of a twitch or skillshot game, which again, is another reason why they are inferior.

11.  Limited Demigod selection.  Having 75 shitty demigods doesn't make for a good game

12.  Lack of micro-transactions.  I like being able to purchase the game, or any game for that matter, outright. 

13.  Pantheon tournament.  Great idea, however some of the issues need to be fixed.  Also, ending the tourney on a weeknight that way it's not down over weekends.

1

Things that could be improved with DG2 (in comparison to other Moba games)

1.  Netcode

2.  Reconnecting upon dropping

3.  Time-out for quitting a game before conceding, maybe have an escalating scale based on (# of times / X amount of time) eg. 3 times in 1 day = 15 minute time-out.  Somehow there will have to be a way to tell the difference between quitting and lagging out. 

4.  Blind demigod selection.

5.  ranked & unranked custom games

6.  Better balance between armor stacking, health stacking, critical hits & dodge.

7.  Being able to customize individual demi-gods outside of the game (e.g. skins, minor boosts etc.)

8.  Being able to pick your favor item prior to entering the game.

9.  Microtransactions.  Being old now, I would love the option to buy everything outright, however the use of microtransactions would grow the community.  This would be the demo as well.  Perhaps offer the client for free, 1 rotating demigod per week for free, $60 for paying for the base game outright ($5 per demigod - 12 demi's), and expansion packs for continued development of items, skins etc.  Expansions could be micro'd as well.  Playing for XP to earn items is a nice feature too.

10.  Complete statistical tracking.  Items used, skills selected, demigod selections, cit upgrades, most used demigod selections etc.

12.    Continued support of community run tourneys, corporate sponsored and run "pro" tourneys. 

13.  Perhaps appoint a panel of prominent players that would interface between the inevitable toxic community and the devs.  Kids these days have no respect lol. The panel could prioritize balance issues, coordinate tourney's etc.

14.  Inviting friends to play in lobby.

15.  An emphasis on more 3v3, 4v4 maps. 

16.  A GPG/SD website similar to demigoddb

 

Anyways, demigod is one of my favorite games of all time, I'm looking forward to DG2.

J

 

 

 

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April 28, 2011 12:55:01 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting OMG_Jongalt26,

13.  Perhaps appoint a panel of prominent players that would interface between the inevitable toxic community and the devs.  Kids these days have no respect lol. The panel could prioritize balance issues, coordinate tourney's etc.


 

  

 

Eve-Online has something similar, allows feedback direct from community. They do it long winded fashion though, voting etc..seems democratic.

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April 28, 2011 11:19:37 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

This feedback comes from player who has only ever played Demigod in SP and has no intentions of playing it in MP. I am aware that the major focus of the game is MP and am not suggesting that that should change, but I am not aware of how many players nevertheless, like I, bought it for SP and play it every now and then for SP. But under the assumption that there are enough of us that it makes sense to consider SP as something apart from a cheap addition, here goes:

For a demigod patch - no suggestions. Work to improve SP would go way beyond a patch at this point.

For a demigod expansion - a more interesting tournament structure starting the tournament with one chosen character and improving it as one progressed through the championship rather than relying on a stock character with items unlocked by point spending across games outside the tournament.

For a demigod sequel - a more interesting tournament structure as detailed above together with one or more SP campaigns - guided tours, if you will, through a sequence of maps with specific enemies and allies preset for each map - not every map having everybody starting symmetrically on an equal footing.

Apart from that, better strategic AI would be a godsend.

----

For both expansion and sequel, a clear focus on the STRATEGIC aspects of the game over the TACTICAL will be appreciated. Using abilities on cooldowns is not particularly engaging gameplay. There's already a certain amount of differentiation there between the generals and assassins to give everybody the opportunity to play something catering to their playstyle, and I appreciate that, I'm just one of those players who would prefer an even stronger strategic focus.

Imagine, for instance, that the general actually spent a considerable amount of his time on commanding troops or prioritising appearance of reinforcements rather than playing like an assassin with a few bodyguards? What an innovative idea!

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April 28, 2011 11:53:45 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Peter Ebbesen,


Imagine, for instance, that the general actually spent a considerable amount of his time on commanding troops or prioritising appearance of reinforcements rather than playing like an assassin with a few bodyguards? What an innovative idea!

I was thinking more of the opposite... less time microing summonable units so you can spend more time fighting.

If you've ever heard of the game herzogzwei on the Sega Genesis this is sort of what I am getting at. In that game you control a super unit, build units, and issue them single orders, and they then go and take care of themselves. Sort of like fire and forget "smart" (or dumb if the AI is bad ) weapons.

The above method applied to demigod general units would probably be the best fit, if this game were to be put on consoles too, to ensure awesome financial success.

Herzogzwei was one of the first Sega Genesis games, and you can actually legally play it with an emulator. I would suggest everyone who has not had a chance to play this great game give it a shot. The concept is pretty solid and should be incorporated into Demigod Generals to ensure consoles can be included for demigod2.

Also you've provided some pretty great feedback in your posts +1

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April 28, 2011 1:01:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

console demigod???? I lol'd

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April 28, 2011 6:43:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG_ZEX,
console demigod???? I lol'd

Well, Monday Night Combat is a smash hit on consoles, and that is made by the people who made Demigod after leaving.

For certain many Genres don't translate well from PC to Console... but this is not one of them.

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April 28, 2011 9:04:20 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting LORD-ORION,



Quoting OMG_ZEX,
reply 171
console demigod???? I lol'd


Well, Monday Night Combat is a smash hit on consoles, and that is made by the people who made Demigod after leaving.

For certain many Genres don't translate well from PC to Console... but this is not one of them.

I believe it is

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April 28, 2011 9:34:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG_ZEX,

Quoting LORD-ORION, reply 172


Quoting OMG_ZEX,
reply 171
console demigod???? I lol'd


Well, Monday Night Combat is a smash hit on consoles, and that is made by the people who made Demigod after leaving.

For certain many Genres don't translate well from PC to Console... but this is not one of them.


I believe it is

I don't think you could play it with a normal controller either.  But they could probably put something decent together using the playstation move.  Also you can use a mouse and keyboard on the ps3, not sure about the xbox.  On consoles it would have to be a $20-$25 downloadable title though to get any sales... well that's if people are still willing to buy stuff off the playstation network after the fiasco that's going on right now.

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April 28, 2011 10:35:43 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think Demigod and other MOBAs are much more suited to console play than RTSes, and there are a bunch of RTSes with playable console ports.  I definitely don't see a problem with making a console port of a potential Demigod sequel, so long as the basic gameplay isn't compromised.   There are plenty of ways to make the interface usable on pad, even if (as with most types of games) you can't reach the same level of competitive play with one.

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