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Fallout: New Vegas vs Fallout 3

By on October 26, 2010 12:06:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm a fan of Fallout 3 (not necessarily as a sequel to FO2, but as a standalone Fallout game). I was a little hesitant about New Vegas because it looked just like a re-skin of Fallout 3. However, after spending about 15-16 hours with New Vegas so far, I will admit I'm pleasantly surprised. In case anyone is on the fence, I'll attempt to round out the similarities and differences between the two games.

Let's get the obvious stuff out of the way - Yes, it is basically a re-skin of Fallout 3. The graphical engine is basically unchanged. There are new weapons and new clothing/armors and the world looks a bit different due to the different setting for the game, but by and large it's Fallout 3 in the visual department. This of course means that PC users with good rigs will have to wait for mods to pretty the game up a bit. There are already good lighting and shader mods (I tried them last night and the difference is quite considerable, the mods add a lot of atmosphere). The high-res texture pack is not out yet, but you can count on it coming. There are a couple misc high-res weapon reskins, I saw a blood texture, and a couple armors.. the world textures will come pretty soon, I imagine.

Now, for the not-so-obvious. Bethesda, in my opinion, has been good at crafting massive worlds, but not so good at making them feel real. In both Oblivion and Fallout 3, there were countless caves and such that served little purpose other than getting xp and loot. The world in Fallout 3 didn't really feel alive.. all the outposts were completely disconnected and had nothing to do with each other and I just never felt like there was anything actually *happening* that wasn't caused by me. Obsidian, on the other hand, seems to have paid attention to the atmosphere of the game. Of course there are still caves to find - I found 3 in about 30 explored locations, so the frequency is much reduced and you're not thinking "Gee, *another* cave!". A lot more of exploration is now sight-seeing, which is nice because those tend to be more varied and provide a nice mix between sight-seeing and combat.

At the same time, the addition of factions to the game gives rise to stuff just happening and interconnecting events. The major factions have their stories so you can understand their motivations and actions, and aren't just "there". There are, of course, minor factions (like individual towns) that mostly just mind their own business, but even those towns feel like a natural part of the world because the presence of factions creates world-encompassing events through no action of you the player, that these towns are all a part of and all can reference. How you interact with these factions makes a difference in what quests and options are available to you later on. Very soon after starting the game, you are introduced to two factions, and if you are inquisitive enough to find the quest buried there, you will soon find yourself making a choice, which might just have a big influence on how you can finish another, totally unrelated quest (I know this is vague, but I'm trying to avoid spoilers).

All in all, the world in New Vegas just feels more cohesive, like a living and breathing world that you're a part of as much as you are shaping it through your actions.

Then we have the introduction of crafting in to the game. You can make food, drink, ammo, guns, you name it. The crafting options are based on your related skills (food/drink need Survival, chems and stimpacks need Medicine, ammo and such needs Repair), and you start with a very healthy list of recipes. It is perhaps not essential to gameplay, but especially if you are playing on Hardcore mode (more on this later), it definitely helps. The nice touch, I thought, was that as you use weapons you end up with empty ammo casings (or depleted energy cells/fuel canisters/etc) which you then use to make new ammo out of. You can of course find these on merchants and as loot. You can also break down weapons and ammo for parts you need for other stuff. All of these require their own "site" (Workbench, Reloading Station, Campfire), which can get annoying to track down as you move forward - especially campfires that seem to be pretty rare.

Then we have the Hardcore mode, which I think has been pretty overblown in the reviews. What it basically means is that you need to drink, eat, and rest occasionally, heals are over-time and not instant so that you can't pump yourself full of stims during a fight and be at full health in a second, and ammo has weight. These are quite a bit loosened.. I've gone days in-game without it telling me I need to sleep, I never get hungry because I use food to heal, and I just have to make sure I keep some dirty water (a little bit of Rad) or purified water on me while traveling for dehydration. If you're trying to fast travel and something terrible would happen (dying from dehydration, or something), it just won't let you so you can't have an accident happen. Ammo having weight does introduce tighter inventory management, and can be a little bit of a hassle.. but that's because I like carrying 10 different weapons each with their own ammo. In short, I think it's actually pretty fun to play in Hardcore mode, but it is separate from game difficulty and can be toggled on and off later (after the initial presentation in-game) at will.

There are also companions that can follow you and you have some control over (unlike FO3), however I haven't gotten one yet so can't comment.. however, it's something FO3 didn't really have at all save for a few story quests.

Oh, and Obsidian also left several nods to the old Fallout games, which earn New Vegas lots of Awesome Points from me. I've already met the (very aged) pilot who ended up crashing her Vertibird outside Klamath, as well as the niece of the woman from Modoc who chained up a female Deathclaw and served Deathclaw Omelettes. These kinds of things are just awesome to see.

In short - even if New Vegas has no graphical improvements over Fallout 3, and the same engine issues - it is hands down a more polished and whole game. It even feels more like a Fallout game than FO3 did, due to how the world atmosphere was set up and there's more interaction between its various denizens.

+527 Karma | 30 Replies
October 26, 2010 3:06:44 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm enjoying it so far as well. Despite Obsidian's rather poor track record, and a few major bugs in NV, I too feel that it's more of a Fallout game than Fallout 3 was. It's hard to pin down exactly what's at the root of that feeling, but tone plays a role. It's a lot more liberal with humor, which was always a big part of Fallout (for me), than Fallout 3 was.

I've played around a bit with the companions, so I can add something there. The companions are quite helpful. They each add a perk, which very somewhat in their usefulness. One causes weapons and armour to degrade more slowly, another lets you detect enemies further away. They also vary a fair bit in combat. Some are great with small arms, others in melee. Boon is all-around the strongest combat oriented companion, with his sniper rifle and strong melee skills to boot.

Each companion has an accessible inventory, and they'll use the strongest armour, ranged and melee weapons you give them, which helps keep them useful throughout the game. This also lets them double as pack mules for you.

On standard difficulty, they can't die, but will be knocked unconscious for a time. I'm not sure what governs the length they're out for, as I've had one stay down for a good 5-6 minutes after I cleared the area of hostiles. On Hardcore, I believe they just die.

They also have a quest or two attached to them, one of which seems upgrade the companion.

 

There are a number of bugs. A few of the quests are flat out broken, including two rather important ones I've come cross, and there are a number of minor quest bugs. Nothing game-breaking yet. It's not a perfect release, but it's still very playable.

October 26, 2010 3:15:50 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

There are a number of bugs. A few of the quests are flat out broken, including two rather important ones I've come cross, and there are a number of minor quest bugs. Nothing game-breaking yet. It's not a perfect release, but it's still very playable.

Is this after the patch? I know they released two, one of which was supposed to fix some scripting. I haven't run into any quest-related issues yet (mostly just stuff getting stuck in rocks and such which is not new for this engine) but I'm only as far as Novoc in the storyline, and did a bunch of quests and side quests along the way.

October 26, 2010 3:16:50 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

As kind of an off topic/on topic request, where are you going to find these mods that improve the visuals of NV.  I never bothered to get any of the mods available for the original FO3, but as I'm just getting started in New Vegas, I certainly wouldn't mind bumping up the visuals a little.  You made the mods for Fo3 sounds impressive, so I'd love to get on the bandwagon.  I'll google, of course, but if there's one good site, I'd love to hear it.  Thanks. 

October 26, 2010 3:25:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Hmm....I liked Fallout 3 for a little while, but after awhile I felt like I was spending too much in time in endless slogs through buildings, killing the same super mutants over and over in a combat system that seemed to try to be both turn based and real time and failed at both. Maybe that's kind of related to the whole "cave" thing that OP was talking about, certainly a lot of the pointless combat slogs did take place during side quests. I also objected to the fact that I almost never found any interesting loot, I wasn't expecting regular upgrades like in a fantasy game, but it would have been nice if every once in awhile I found something new to play with.

I've considered picking up Fallout 3 Vegas, but it wasn't clear to what extent any of this would be better. It does sound like there is more of a crafting system which might solve some of the lack of interesting upgrades problem. And of course I can put up with the bad combat system more if there are fewer repetative combats.

Hard Core mode sounds interesting, although I didn't love the inventory management aspect of Fallout 3 as it was. I'm not sure I'd want to make it worse by adding ammo weights. I like the idea of sometimes needing to eat or drink though, might make scavenging for supplies a litttle less bland. Though as the OP said you usually eat all the time anyway to heal.

October 26, 2010 3:44:07 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting OMG_pacov,
As kind of an off topic/on topic request, where are you going to find these mods that improve the visuals of NV.  I never bothered to get any of the mods available for the original FO3, but as I'm just getting started in New Vegas, I certainly wouldn't mind bumping up the visuals a little.  You made the mods for Fo3 sounds impressive, so I'd love to get on the bandwagon.  I'll google, of course, but if there's one good site, I'd love to hear it.  Thanks. 

The biggest mod site I know of for the Bethesda games in general are on nexus.com, so http://www.newvegasnexus.com, http://www.fallout3nexus.com, http://www.tesnexus.com, and they also have a site for Dragon Age at http://www.dragonagenexus.com. Use the links under the "Files" section on the right hand side of the page to browse.

The mods I tried specifically are:

http://newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34902 (decreases the text font so more stuff fits in the inventory list, dialog list, etc)
http://newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34831 (some lighting tweaks to pretty up)
http://newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34868 (enhanced shaders).

Of the 3, the shaders mod makes the obvious difference: http://newvegasnexus.com/downloads/images/34868-1-1287674326.jpg

As you can imagine, there isn't *too* much out for New Vegas right now, but you can head over to fallout3nexus to check out the weapon reskins, high res texture packs, etc - it's impressive work, and only a matter of time until they make it over to NV.

 

October 26, 2010 3:52:25 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting FadedC,
Hmm....I liked Fallout 3 for a little while, but after awhile I felt like I was spending too much in time in endless slogs through buildings, killing the same super mutants over and over in a combat system that seemed to try to be both turn based and real time and failed at both. Maybe that's kind of related to the whole "cave" thing that OP was talking about, certainly a lot of the pointless combat slogs did take place during side quests. I also objected to the fact that I almost never found any interesting loot, I wasn't expecting regular upgrades like in a fantasy game, but it would have been nice if every once in awhile I found something new to play with.

I've considered picking up Fallout 3 Vegas, but it wasn't clear to what extent any of this would be better. It does sound like there is more of a crafting system which might solve some of the lack of interesting upgrades problem. And of course I can put up with the bad combat system more if there are fewer repetative combats.

Hard Core mode sounds interesting, although I didn't love the inventory management aspect of Fallout 3 as it was. I'm not sure I'd want to make it worse by adding ammo weights. I like the idea of sometimes needing to eat or drink though, might make scavenging for supplies a litttle less bland. Though as the OP said you usually eat all the time anyway to heal.

The VATS combat in NV is the same as it was, but normal combat is better. Your weapons have ironsights now, so you can play it more like an FPS.. there's still some bullet spread and damage is skill based (damage dealt - armor DR, with bleedthrough if armor DR > damage dealt) but in general you can actually aim now. As for loot, so far NV is not really different in that regard. You do get easier and faster access to energy weapons, but depending on difficulty level and perks, ammo can be scarce so you might end up using more basic guns simply because there's more ammo out in the world for them. Re-making ammo from spent ammo helps, but as you can imagine it's not 1:1 and does require a substantial investment into the Repair skill.

In addition to the crafting, there are also weapon mods, which I forgot to mention - scopes, magazine extenders, even found one mod for laser rifles that increases damage.

The inventory management (and the PipBoy in general) are definitely sub-par on the PC as an interface.. one of the mods I linked above shrinks the font so that helps a lot to cut down on the endless scrolling, but it's still quite clunky. I've never been much of a fan of list-based systems, always prefered slots with item icons.

October 26, 2010 4:02:53 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Thanks for the info, Annatar - I'll be checking out those sites tonight. 

October 26, 2010 6:02:33 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Annatar11,

There are a number of bugs. A few of the quests are flat out broken, including two rather important ones I've come cross, and there are a number of minor quest bugs. Nothing game-breaking yet. It's not a perfect release, but it's still very playable.
Is this after the patch? I know they released two, one of which was supposed to fix some scripting. I haven't run into any quest-related issues yet (mostly just stuff getting stuck in rocks and such which is not new for this engine) but I'm only as far as Novoc in the storyline, and did a bunch of quests and side quests along the way.

Like I said, none of it is game-breaking, and it does seem like the patches have cleared up some issues.

But I'm still having some issues with the latest patch. I've worked around one of them by running a temporary mod, and the other fixes itself if you run around a bit. Both the broken quests were from Camp Macarran, not too far after Novac. Now that I think about it, there are a few other quest oddities. In one of the casinos, if you sneak and use stealth-boy, you can get into areas before you are meant to, which sort of "unhinges" a few quests, setting parts of them into action while prerequisite triggers are untouched... sort of interesting.

 

Quoting Annatar11,

 are definitely sub-par on the PC as an interface.. one of the mods I linked above shrinks the font so that helps a lot to cut down on the endless scrolling, but it's still quite clunky. I've never been much of a fan of list-based systems, always prefered slots with item icons.

I'm with you there, going through the inventory (especially when trading, where every last item you have, down to individual playing cards, is listed. I'm fine with lists, if it has a strong filter). Unfortunately, this game doesn't.

October 26, 2010 6:56:06 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Actually, the cards thing is a bug, there's a mod that fixes it too. It happens to cards you buy, and it doesn't actually add them to the deck. It's supposed to remove them from the inventory and into the deck, and you can install this script to do it, until they officially patch it:

http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34855

I'll keep an eye out on the scripting issues. My character is not much of a sneaker, so at least I'll be spared the casino sneak thing. Thanks for the heads-up, though!

October 26, 2010 7:18:12 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Ah, well, that would be nice. I've been buying all I come across, even though I don't both with the game.

October 27, 2010 10:36:26 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Well, I ran into one scripting bug, with ED-E. Apparently, the quest to take him to the scrap yard continues off the conversation with Old Lady Gibson. However, I visited the scrap yard before repairing ED-E and thus went through all her convo, which cannot be repeated now that I do have ED-E following me.

I wonder if there's a way to reset an NPC's convo status with a script, because that would fix it..

October 27, 2010 12:47:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

FONV is a great game. Just can't really decide what sort of character i'd like to play.... Well actually i can BUT the game doesn't let me (Power armor+Grenade machine gun, minigun and rocket launcher).

HC mode is sort of interesting BUT it is too easy and mostly just a nuisance. Biggest issue i have is the ammo having weight. I have a few thousand rounds (in "stacks" ofc) littering my house, weighting about 200 pounds at least. Since companions can die on HC, i cannot use them to carry my ammo around... as they tend to die constantly.

360 version, only a few glitches encountered, nothing serious (if i don't count Boone losing his rifle due a casino visit, check Vaultwiki for bugs, seriously)

October 27, 2010 3:23:43 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

power armor grenade machine gun minigun and rocket launcher, you want to play as a space marine then?

October 27, 2010 6:23:32 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting coreimpulse,
power armor grenade machine gun minigun and rocket launcher, you want to play as a space marine then?

You disaprove?

I intend to play multiple playthroughs... and my first playthroughs are more or less "space marine" or "knight" playthroughs. Because it is pretty much the easiest way and a fast way. I get to known the gameworld quickly though not in detail necessarily. Helps on later playthroughs but leaves me a lot to find out still. Besides, crushing massive amounts of enemies alone is pretty satisfying.

The playstyle gets pretty old fast, though. I was originally going to play a callous manipulator BUT i got frustrated by the skill point allocation. I felt that i needed to put points to sneak, repair and guns a lot (for perks and to survive in the world) but i also had a big need to spent them on all the useful non-combat skills. So i restarted, melee character proved boring once again and so i stuck to familiar "space marine".

October 27, 2010 7:45:17 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Melee is pretty tough to play since a lot of times you end up going against multiple gun-wielding people. A ninja-type melee/gun hybrid might be interesting, since you can sneak up for massive melee criticals with the right perks, and then go with guns.

October 27, 2010 10:01:41 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm playing as a sniper type. While this build suffers a little early on due to a really low level of scoped weapons, it's been laughably easy once I found the Gobi Rifle. (And became only easier when I found the A-M Rifle, which one-shots Deathclaws.) Using Boon and ED-E seems the best, as each of their perks go particularly well with sniping. And if I find myself in a situation where I'm surrounded, I pull out my trusty pistol of the moment.

Actually, this brings us to the topic of weapons. I find the variety in New Vegas to almost perfect. I'm fairly far into my first playthrough and there are still a ton of weapons I haven't even looked into.

October 27, 2010 10:18:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Sniper type is one of my favorite to play. My current is going to be heavy weapons/energy (I'm a sucker for miniguns, and gatling guns), but in Fallout 2 all of my characters inevitably ended up with a Gauss rifle and the Sniper perk, doing criticals when shooting out eyes for one-hit kills. I do like the gun variety in New Vegas also, but it does make my inventory cry.

October 27, 2010 10:32:40 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I'm playing a sneaky scientist with maxed gun skills for my first play-thru.  While it seems that there are a lot fewer computer terminals to hack in FNV than in FO3 (which kinda makes some sense), science does open occasional dialog options (not enough, though).  I've noticed that some quests seem to require other skills to complete that I currently lack sufficient knowledge of (everything from Medicine to Speech/Barter skills to Repair and Lockpicking).  While I think that's a good thing, it also means I may have to put off completing some of the quests until I get a lot more skill points, or until a second or third play-thru.  I also want to try a playthrough with a high luck character so that I can actually beat the house at gambling 8-).

In many ways, I'm finding the game to be better than FO3.  But I also miss the iconic landmarks of the DC Wastelands.  And maybe it's because I spent part of my childhood in NYC, but I miss exploring DC's subways, and tunnels.

One thing that I've noticed so far is that I'm not doing as much crafting as I did in FO3, but that may be because I feel like I'm getting bogged down carrying around a lot more weaponry, so can't spare the weight to pick up crafting components.  This is despite the greater abundance of recipes.

October 27, 2010 11:38:02 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

can we shoot at all in real time? Fallout 3 it was pointless... needed VATS to even do anything though was fun just real time was hopeless

October 28, 2010 8:08:54 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Non-VATS shooting is a lot better since there are ironsights for weapons. In addition, at least on Very Hard + Hardcore (don't know other difficulties), the mystic 90% damage reduction in FO3 VATS seems to be gone.. if you get hit while in VATS mode, you feel it now. This makes VATS good for starting fights, especially for sneak criticals, but I'm killing a lot more in normal mode now than I did in FO3.

October 28, 2010 9:13:43 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I rarely use VATS myself except for when the fighting gets in too close, and enemies are jumping around spasticly, where my weapons of choice (revolvers and sniper rifles) are a lot harder to manually aim. Otherwise, sniping from long range, and using revolvers at mid to semi-close range is all done outside of VATS.

October 28, 2010 2:07:28 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hi!

 

I have got a serious problem

 

When i wanna to buy some ammo, i buy it and when i wanna to shoot them, thers no in the gun

I dunno what is it, but if you can please help me

I can only get ammo by picking up them at enemyes

October 28, 2010 5:02:08 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

A couple things come to mind.

Make sure you are buying the right calibre of ammo, as there are number of sizes. If you look at the gun in your inventory, it will show which type you need.

If you have multiple types of the same size, such as armour piercing or hollow point, you can toggle which type you are using by pressing "2" outside of the Pip-Boy interface. It's possible you've been buying specialty ammo!

Otherwise... that's not a problem I've encountered yet.

October 28, 2010 5:32:28 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It does look very good, but since i mostly play on the Xbox 360 i would probably buy it for that. Although I don't think im going to buy it for a while if ido at all.

oh and are the enclave in the game they were my favorite faction.

 

"as well as the niece of the woman from Modoc who chained up a female Deathclaw and served Deathclaw Omelettes." i would kill her as fast as i possibly can deathclaws rule

October 28, 2010 6:15:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The Enclave are certainly referenced in New Vegas, but whether or not they actually show up in person I don't know. The Brotherhood of Steel is, and it's rare to find them in a game without their Enclave nemesis.

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