Common Mistakes

By on May 18, 2010 7:07:12 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

OMG_NinkiCZ

Join Date 05/2009
+14

Before I start up with guides for each character, I thought it would be important for everyone to learn the basics first. (I also need to ask Orcun's permission to post his infamous UB build)

I didn't want to write the same thing in every DG guide so I thought it would be easier if I just posted a general overview so I don't have to repeat myself 10 times.

I'm certainly not the best DG player. That title belongs to Orcun. What I do have is experience. I've been playing this game for quite a long time (maybe too long) and probably tried every build you could think of (yes I've had a yeti Sedna phase). Now that it's a year into the game and probably everything has been tried, it's become pretty clear what is the best build for each Demigod - I've seen them all; the good and the terrible.

But before I start writing up specific guides, I would like to point to a few common problems I see many players make - yes even those who are "experienced." You might not agree with my take on them, but I'm just expressing my viewpoints based on my experience with the game.

The wrong person buying currency

This happens way too often. Before the game starts, it should be obvious based on the character who should be buying currency. Here's pretty much a simple break down on who should be buying currency, from the highest priority to the lowest in a 3v3 or more:

1) Regulus

2) Erebus

3) Torch Bearer

4) Sedna

5) Oak

6) Demon Assassin

7) Queen of Thorns

8) Occulus

9) Rook

10) Unclean Beast

Obviously if someone gets 2 kills before reaching war rank 3, then you can have them buy currency (even though if those 2 kills went to UB I'd still buy them). One of my biggest frustration is when a Regulus or an Erebus refuses to buy currency when you have a Rook and a UB on the team. Rook, QoT, DA, Occ are heavily mana dependent early on. Especially with a Rook, if you can allow him to shop around for his items in the beginning, he will greatly reward you in the end. Because his item build is not expensive (will expand in Rook guide) he will end up buying most of the end-game citadel upgrades. Also a Rook with mana means a Rook who can build lots of towers to hold flags and set up kills, which is to your advantage.

A regulus does need mana for snipes (which is not an issue on Leviathan) but stick with a mana pot if you only have money to buy currency. One of the best things about having a regulus on your team is to not worry about early citadel upgrades - if you're forcing your teammates to buy them then you've pretty much defeated the purpose of a regulus (more on that in the Regulus guide). While it might sound very sad but you are pretty much useless compared to your teammates, your job is to keep them strong.

While Erebus does need a lot of mana to use mass charm, bat swarm and bite - an Erebus can hold its own early game with coven and mist. Those vampires do quite a bit of damage in the beginning and mist will help you stay alive in virtually any situation. Your bite also heals yourself, so you're not in dire need of hp like the rest of the DGs. If you are getting currency, just be mindful of your mana pool (which will be discussed in the EB guide).

A UB should NEVER buy currency ESPECIALLY if there's a UB on the other team. Why? Because the stronger the UB is on your team, the better chance of you winning fights. If the UB on your team is weaker than the UB on the other team, then you're in trouble. UB buying currency really hurts the UB and it's going to be very hard to catch up after that. So, if you have a UB on your team don't expect him to buy currency, it should be you.

Buying a sigil too early

I've heard of way too many people tell me 10 minutes into the game, "If I had a sigil then I would've lived!" While that may be true, you should've never been in the situation where you would need to sigil in the first place. When you have less than 3k (I'd even argue 4k) of health, it's really not worth spending money on a sigil. A sigil gives you 50% of your maximum health for 30 seconds - so it only gives you a 30 second time frame to do stuff (even less time if a Regulus is watching for your sigil to wear off) and then you'd have to go back to your citadel and heal up. Buy a potion instead because +750hp actually lasts and it saves you money. Sigils are quite expensive and while you may think you're amazing because you're running way from battles without dying - you're going to start feeling the pain soon enough when the other team has more gold than you to buy beautiful items and is higher leveled because they didn't need to continuously walk back to their citadel. By that point, even a sigil wouldn't help you.

Activating a sigil too early/too late

If you've activated a sigil too late, it probably means you're dead. Now I understand you want to trick your opponents by popping a sigil in when you're down to 200hp so you can surprise them and kill them. That works if you're confident the other team doesn't have a stun or any instant burst damage. I'm still surprised when I play a Sedna that people would still willingly wait until they're down to 1k to pop a sigil, when Sedna has a 5 second silence. Think about the characters on the other team - Erebus has a 3 second mass charm, Occulus, Fire TB and DA can pop up to 2k instant damage at level 10, Sedna can silence for up to 5 seconds, UB can grasp you for 2, Rook can boulder roll for up to 2.5 seconds and hammer slam does a massive amount of damage, ice TB can also stun for up to 3 seconds. Instead of saying "Darn it, stupid silence" what you really should be saying to yourself is "Why didn't I sigil earlier."

Don't sigil before you go into a battle, that's just silly because it will wear off during battle so what you essentially end up doing is giving them a free kill. Also don't sigil too early because then your opponent will run away and you've essentially just wasted 500 gold. It just takes a bit of experience to know when is the right time to sigil, but I can say that especially with a UB, timing of the sigil is what separates the good players from the best players.

Also, don't sigil if you know you're not going to survive anyway unless you're giving your teammates a chance at killing them. Why waste the 500 gold?

Dying to lock a portal

Don't be so hasty to relock the portal when the portal towers are still standing. I've come across many situations where people get cocky when they're winning, so they constantly just rush into the portals to lock and then die for it.

First, it's not that crucial to keep the portal locked unless you have giants. Second, it's not worth dying to lock a portal if you're the only person with a stun and if you're the carry. Why? Because that means that the other team can rush into your portal to steal yours and your teammates won't be able to do anything about it. I know Oaks like to do this in particular, where they tp in, shield then lock and then die for it - without realizing we probably need you. What you should be doing is walking into their portals, shield lock and tp out. If you have journeyman's then you've probably got a better shot at surviving, but the only person who can really tp into a portal with 3 people standing there and relock safely is an erebus. If it's become the crucial time to lock portals, then plan to go in as a group. If you consistently feed them kills trying to lock their portals, they will eventually have enough money to make a comeback.

Excessive Fake Porting

I've been noticing that once people have started to realize the usefulness of fake ports, too many people have started fake porting excessively. It's not a big deal if you're talking on vent and you're telling each other exactly what you're doing, but I don't like talking most of the time and a lot of people don't have mics.

The purpose of a fake port is to scare your opponents away, if your opponents don't get scared, then most likely you actually should tp in. Playing with teammates who fake port excessively is quite frustrating - you decide to engage because you see your teammate tping in and the other team decides to stay and fight it out, but what your teammate was actually doing was faking a port, which ends up with you dying because you thought your teammate was tping in to gank. The worst is when they make a comment like "why did you engage" - classic face palm moment right there. Use your fake ports wisely, don't over do it. If you fake port but see your teammate engage, quickly communicate with him via ingame chat, or actually go tp in and gank. They're doing YOU a favour by trying to set up a kill.

Running away too early

If you are an Erebus or an Occulus, maybe even a speedy fire TB, there is no reason for you to get all scared when you see your opponents teleporting in. STAY, because I can tell you that most of the time it's just a fake port. If a bunch of people do port in, then just blink away. What you've essentially done is made them waste a port and probably also freed up another lane in the process.

Another common mistake is that players often run away too far when they see their opponent tp in. There is a good chance that it's a fake port, so don't run too far. One trick is to "dance" around the flag, to make it seem like you're leaving the flag but you're still in range to cap it. Just move forward (but don't ever pass a capped flag) and backward a couple of times.

If your teammates are tping in to gank, then engage first (assuming you can tank for a bit) to attract your opponents so that your teammates can gank. I know it seems quite obvious, but there have been numerous times where I've tped in just to watch the UB on my team run away with full health. By running away, you've wasted my time and a port.

Flag, Kill & Tower Envy

It's important to understand that in order for you to win a game, you need to have the war score and gold - there needs to be a balance.

One common strategy is to get flag locks early and start locking flags all around the map. When you do that, the opposing team starts to become anxious so they start to move around the map in hopes of capturing a flag. However, because everyone is all over the place, it's easy to kill off people to gank. So for example, let's say on cataract that the hp flag and the mid flag are captured by the opposing team, and you and your partner are laning on the hp side - typical scenario. The opposing team locks the hp flag and leaves - most likely they're leaving to go to the mid flag so you can't capture it. Use that prediction to your advantage - DON'T LEAVE your hp flag because if you leave for mid, then what will probably happen is that the mid flag will be capped, 3 of them will port into the hp side and gank the poor guy standing there all by himself waiting for the flag to be unlocked. Don't be anxious, you will eventually get the hp flag back. Also, with each lock they're using they're losing 250 gold - which is quite a lot of gold in the beginning of the game. As long as you don't give them kills, then they will be disadvantaged by the middle of the game. However, if you leave your partner to try and capture mid, and then all 3 go in to gank that 1 poor guy, you're essentially rewarding them for locking. Don't do that. Of course the converse is also true, don't excessively lock flags. What is the point of reaching war score 10 when no one has any money to buy creeps?

If you were winning in kills but still ended up losing the game, what most likely happened was that the other team got giants first. I know that the reg seems really delicious as a UB, but if you see your opponents taking down your portal towers, that should take precedence over 1 kill on a regulus. The most common way people miss their own portal being captured is when they're too focused on getting a kill - pay attention to the entire map. This game only requires you to only press a few buttons in battle, it's not that hard to keep an eye out for your own portals and valor flag.

Some people also have an obsession with taking down towers but the purpose of taking down the towers is so you can push your creep wave forward and also make it easier to steal their portals. The keyword here is "easier" - does not make it a definite yes. For example, a minion build often takes down towers quite quickly, but even if they have all the portal towers down they often still have a difficult time stealing portals because they've invested a lot of money into buffing their minions. If you're an Occulus, fine go attack the towers because they do a good job at it and they also have an escape mechanism. If you're any other character, don't be so hasty. Dying to take down a tower is often not the greatest trade off because each death rewards your opponents with a lot of gold. I understand that a regulus can hit towers without getting hurt, but if an erebus tps in, bat swarms and bites you're pretty much screwed.

And here's just a small sneak peek I suppose. I didn't want to write a massive 10 page essay right from the get go. I'll add more soon but I just posted what I think are the important ones to address first.

 

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May 18, 2010 7:11:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

some good tips!  Thanks!

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May 18, 2010 9:53:35 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Q:

If there is an LE on the opposing team, you still think Reg, TB or DA shouldn't get life up to 3K instead of spring for currency right at war rank 3?

With banded only on these guys, death is one swarm and a bite away once level 5 hits, even if your team is on the ball and TPs in to help, you will die before they reach you and LE will throw himself into a tower to deny you any gold. If they have banded + unbreakable, then LE cannot kill them by their tower.

 

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May 18, 2010 11:08:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

If there is an LE on the opposing team, you still think Reg, TB or DA shouldn't get life up to 3K instead of spring for currency right at war rank 3?

i do.  Reg is the primary for cur1 imo.  if reg dies to erb early game over and over is because of inexperience, not because of an erb in the game.  If you are going to play reg, YOU MUST BE GETTING KILLS early.  Otherwise, u shouldn't be reg.  Or is there a new, "reg is great late game" strat I haven't heard of?

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May 18, 2010 11:35:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Or is there a new, "reg is great late game" strat I haven't heard of?

Yep, its called ashkandor

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May 19, 2010 12:17:26 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG_pacov,

If there is an LE on the opposing team, you still think Reg, TB or DA shouldn't get life up to 3K instead of spring for currency right at war rank 3?
i do.  Reg is the primary for cur1 imo.  if reg dies to erb early game over and over is because of inexperience, not because of an erb in the game.  If you are going to play reg, YOU MUST BE GETTING KILLS early.  Otherwise, u shouldn't be reg.  Or is there a new, "reg is great late game" strat I haven't heard of?

I'm not saying over and over... once at level 4-5 is enough to finance cur.

2240 HPs leaves no margin of error against level 5 LE who has bought scaled helm. That is 10 seconds to death as the best case scenario. IF you are wounded (around 250HPs off of full life) and then LE swarms in, you are gone in 7.

3000HPs? (reg with banded + unbreakable) Level 5 LE cannot kill you so he won't even try. (he won't have the mana, time or life vs the tower and you)

Just sayin... that advice gets even tier 1 players killed sometimes at a bad time in the game, can't imagine what it will do to "average" players who are DA / Reg or TB sitting at 2200 HP and get caught stepping forward and alone as LE comes out of the fog of war.

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May 19, 2010 12:26:06 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Level 5 erebus with Level 2 Bite, Batswarm, Coven and Mass Charm with Scaled Helm and monks: 

Assuming that the armor debuff form bite roughly equals the ~10% armor you have at level 5, then Erebus does 140 DPS from his autoattack. His 2 monks continue to do 43 dps and his 6 walkers do 60 dps to you assuming that they manage to hit you. This comes out to 243 dps. 

Batswarm + 2x Bite == 1100 damage over 7 seconds. 

In 7 seconds he can do 2801 damage (making the often incorrect assumption his minions are hitting you from the get go and he has a full swarm of nightcrawlers). In reality it would be more likely ~200 dps dropping it to 2500 hp. 

Level 5 Regulus has 1840 hp :3 You wouldn't make it to the second bite. Your best option is to port out the second he batswarms. You can cancel your port as he casts charm then port out afterwards. He probably won't have mana for his second, killing bite. 

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May 19, 2010 10:07:15 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Good Tips Ninki!

"I also need to ask Orcun's permission to post his infamous UB build".

Absolutely no problem.

"The wrong person buying currency"

I particularly liked this section since it often causes problems. I would change few things regarding the list though.

An assassin ereb is likely to get early kills if gold is spent on items instead of cur 1. Although mana is manageable with often stance change for tb, a tb with some hp items can walk into battles safer and would allow team to deal much more damage (or disable) by casting close range aoe spells.

Qot and Sedna on the other hand don't have much offensive stance until high level and they can hold flags due to high hp reg on sedna and closed stance of qot. Mana is manageable for these demis to keep it high for a battle even without a helm.

So i would personally put qot and sedna right after regulus.

Regarding Regulus discussion: Regulus,early game, will be playing only snipe support and occasional charges to enemy to deal some extra aa damage and slow opponents if you play him with maim like i do. Regulus is very hard to kill early game, as long as he got 1 pot and 1 tp. Mark of the betrayer will give you the time to escape from any 1v1 battle and until level 5 you better stay couple steps behind tower. In a high skill match Erebus will know not to charge for reg with full hp behind tower. because reg can easly mark/pot/tp out and snipe while ereb can get in trouble with reg's teammates tp'ing on to tower. This information is pretty much only valid for high skill games only though, where everyone has a good sense of when to tp in.On top of that due to snipe ability for every kill your team makes, reg is likely to get at least assist out of them. So most games regs will make more money than others.

Talking of teleporting, this is a very important aspect of the game. You (the new players that wants to improve) must be aware of many things regarding teleporting. Without this being used well, nothing you do really matters as much. I think you should write about this ninki, it's essential. 

 

 

 

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May 19, 2010 11:27:59 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Great guide Ninki. Good to see current strategies on the forums again.

Looking forward to the rest. + 1

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May 19, 2010 12:17:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Some good points in here, thanks..

On Curr priority, one perspective - the DG who survives best without gear buys curr, so my top 5 would go like this:

1.  Regulus

2.  Sedna/Erebus/QoT/Oak

3.  Occulus

4.  Kite DA

5.  TB

Another perspective - the secondary DG in the HP lane should get curr.  I.E.  If my team is DA/UB/Rook then either UB or Rook is soloing mana and the other one is primary on the HP side.  DA is supporting the HP primary, therefore DA buys currency.

Neither of these are ideals - last thing I want to be doing as DA, for example, is buying Curr, but when you have a team of Tier 1 melee DGs then it seems to be how it works out..

On Reg: what Orcun said

 

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May 19, 2010 12:47:57 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I should've pointed out in the OP that this guide is meant to push the middle tier player to the top tier, because while they may have the correct item build and skill order, little things here and there can really prevent them from winning games.

The reason why QoT is heavily mana dependent is primarily due to the way I play her, those shamblers use up crrrazzzy mana. But, if you are playing a closed bulb or no shambler QoT (which in my opinion are not the best builds by the way) then you really should get currency since you won't be using up too much mana.

When I try to decide who should buy currency I think of two things,

1) Who is viable with the least amount of items and

2) Who can make the quickest comeback from being short 1800 gold

I think Sedna has a problem with 2 because she's walking around everywhere healing her allies, while having no AOEs to sweep creeps. Erebus on the other hand can leave his vampires in a lane while he moves around everywhere and his vampies will kill some creeps for him. I also put Sedna lower on the list because she's often be the target in ganks. While you probably won't be involved in a gank until later levels, my opinion is she needs to beef up and prepare for a beating. Erebus on the other hand can hold his own against all DGs early game (except a UB with a monk attached) so I usually feel quite comfortable even with very little items.

A TB usually moves around everywhere trying to level up and can usually sweep a creep wave quite quickly. Because he's killing most of the creeps, he probably has more gold (and in some cases just stealing yours) to buy currency.

I did think those in mid-priority can be debated depending on who you talk to. But I think the unanimous decision is 1) Regulus should always get currency (followed by EB/Sedna) and 2) UB & Rook should NEVER get currency.

Quoting Maccilia,

Yep, its called ashkandor

Ashkandor is the most over-rated item ever. I find that it's not as helpful as most people make it out to be.

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May 19, 2010 1:12:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I did think those in mid-priority can be debated depending on who you talk to. But I think the unanimous decision is 1) Regulus should always get currency (followed by EB/Sedna) and 2) UB & Rook should NEVER get currency.

That works

Reading the replies again - I'd also like to see a guide on TP usage

Thanks,

Kestrel

 

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May 19, 2010 1:29:31 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hey, I don't want people knockin' on my door for Cur!

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May 19, 2010 2:21:56 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ninki, i do see your point and it makes sense. I suppose it depends on the playing style of the team as well. I like to play aggressive and therefore i think demis likely to get kills shouldn't get cur for the reasons i mentioned above. It's true that this order would change if you prefer an early flag domination and more safety though.

A quick scenarios to this would be:

Sedna buys cur and tb doesnt. Ice tb has unbreakable/tp/pot. Teleports in hp flag uses spells, changes forms damages with AA, when targeted uses pot, gets a kill. If tb bought to cur, tb don't have shit to tp in a battle.

Tb buys cur, sedna doesnt.  Ub and sedna fighting on hp flag against oak and ub. Being confident sedna/ub is stronger early game, ub sedna stays in battle. Sedna heals ub twice, oak shields ub. Shielded ub has low hp so other ub goes for the kill,passes the flag, meanwhile ereb ports in and focuses ub. Ub starts to back out, in this case sedna can keep healing ub and can save him. If bought cur, sedna probably only has scaled helm and is less likely to save. 

So, yeah:"I think the unanimous decision is 1) Regulus should always get currency (followed by EB/Sedna) and 2) UB & Rook should NEVER get currency."

Agreed on this , with a minor difference of "followed by EB/SEDNA/QOT. " I add qot only because we play qot differently ninki.

Btw, I am not trying to create an argument or anything:) just reasoning stuff in my perspective.

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May 19, 2010 4:42:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

There are really two sides to this: 

1- How much does one demigod gain by not having to purchase Currency? (More items means the ability to be more aggressive. UB and Rook obviously benefit the most from not having to purchase it since it lets them do what they do: dominate the game)

2- How much does a demigod LOSE by not having to purchase Currency? Some demigods are really crippled if they have to get currency (like DA). Some Demigods do just fine even if they get it (UB can rely on his natural strength, for example. When he gets cur he doesn't become a liability). 

Now this might sound like the same thing rephrased twice, but it isn't. Regulus and Sedna is frequently made the primary candidate for Currency because of the fact that even if they get it, they can still perform their duties well. (Healing Wind II doesn't require mana and Snipe doesn't require HP). However, if you force the queen to get it, she can't keep up her shields as they get more and more mana intensive and burst damage becomes higher. 

Characters who aren't negatively impacted by purchasing Currency:

Erebus, Sedna, Oak (shield III port and he is weak at this stage of the game anyway), BotS TB, UB 

Characters who benefit most from not having to purchase Currency: 

Rook, UB, Occulus

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May 19, 2010 5:24:57 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I wouldn't put tb that high up in the list, unless he's bots.  I would put oak, sedna, and qot above tb.  As mentioned above tho, it realllly depends on play-styles and the combo your team has.  However, it's hard to quantify every little nuance that would change this up.  Anyway, I would generally say reg, sedna, qot, bots tb, erebus, oak, fire tb, occulus / rook, ub.  Things do change tho.. and some teams might have a different person get it.  Meh. 

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May 19, 2010 6:06:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

My biggest mistake is playing Demigod sober.

But...I'm not smoking anymore so I'm...at an impasse here...

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May 20, 2010 8:15:51 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Nice post. Some hints is always welcome

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May 20, 2010 11:26:20 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'll update once I get my life in order.

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May 23, 2010 7:35:51 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Updated. I'll do a tp one next.

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May 24, 2010 8:35:33 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

imo sed should get bishops very early instead of cur. she saves mana by that and can split them up between the lanes.

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May 24, 2010 9:23:02 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Biggest mistake, not playing queen at all when bored!

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May 24, 2010 4:58:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The biggest mistake I see is that bad players will not commit to a team fight even though they have plenty of health and mana. This one is the biggest to me because I play rook and I can't run away from a fight like everyone else   

Communication during a fight is always important, focus fire is a necessity in coordinated team play, and knowing your teammate will sigil will earn you a kill instead of a death (or two deaths depending on the case). The mod that lets you see your teammate's items is sooo important. It lets you know if the have a sigil, a lock, teleports, how much gold they have, it would be a mistake not to download it.

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May 24, 2010 8:32:24 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG_Splitshadow,
The biggest mistake I see is that bad players will not commit to a team fight even though they have plenty of health and mana. This one is the biggest to me because I play rook and I can't run away from a fight like everyone else   

Communication during a fight is always important, focus fire is a necessity in coordinated team play, and knowing your teammate will sigil will earn you a kill instead of a death (or two deaths depending on the case). The mod that lets you see your teammate's items is sooo important. It lets you know if the have a sigil, a lock, teleports, how much gold they have, it would be a mistake not to download it.
we should go duo rook sometime

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December 31, 2011 10:52:23 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

wonderfull advices. Thnx a lot.

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