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January 10, 2011 12:46:45 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Upon further thought on the subject, I have come to the conclusion that morph simply wrote 2 paragraphs and put them at either end of a recipe for chocolate cake.

Twilight Storm | Is too lazy to verify his Hypothesis...

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January 10, 2011 12:54:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Twilight_Storm,
Upon further thought on the subject, I have come to the conclusion that morph simply wrote 2 paragraphs and put them at either end of a recipe for chocolate cake.

Right.....

Well, what do this recipe say? Should I use 1 or 2 glasses of flour for the cake?

"My Pokemans. Let me show you them"

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January 10, 2011 1:00:00 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Twilight_Storm,

Twilight Storm | Is too lazy to verify his Hypothesis...

Twilight Storm | Dislikes repeating himself.

Twilight Storm | Dislikes repeating himself.

Twilight Storm | Dislikes repeating himself...

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January 10, 2011 1:07:42 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

No, please repeat yourself, because I didnt get it the first time

 

 

"My Pokemans. Let me show you them"

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January 10, 2011 2:31:59 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

So, having read your post, and also unlocked the related achievement, I ask you this question. How will you bring the majority of the human race into the correct mindset to achieve this goal?

 

 

Also, I find your take on money quite interesting. I assume you know the origin of money as we know it, but the core principal was that rather than trade two sheep for a cow, you'd trade bits of metal that represented the value of two sheep, which could then be spent on two sheep, or in this instance, a cow.

As you said, it's changed a lot, but in your system, surely there must still be something that one man has which another hasn't? So trade begins again, and people soon find carrying a table around to swap for a man's wardrobe a little tiring, and will want to carry something that represents the value of their table. How would you abolish money? Abolish trade? Give everyone everything?

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January 10, 2011 5:40:11 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Oatesy03,
How will you bring the majority of the human race into the correct mindset to achieve this goal?

That is the most difficult task we humans must complete, and this is why I said that it can only happen gradually during time, if you remember.

There is absolutely no chance that every human being alive will wake up one day, and say, "hey I must change the way I think".

You can consider this task (nearly) impossible within a short period of time.

Quoting Oatesy03,
Also, I find your take on money quite interesting. I assume you know the origin of money as we know it, but the core principal was that rather than trade two sheep for a cow, you'd trade bits of metal that represented the value of two sheep, which could then be spent on two sheep, or in this instance, a cow.

Yes, I know that.. But that is completely irrelevant. It is just history. Right now, money only represents money, thus it represents nothing at all.

Quoting Oatesy03,
As you said, it's changed a lot, but in your system, surely there must still be something that one man has which another hasn't? So trade begins again, and people soon find carrying a table around to swap for a man's wardrobe a little tiring, and will want to carry something that represents the value of their table. How would you abolish money? Abolish trade? Give everyone everything?

And again, we come to my point, when I said that we must change the way we think. Our society today, is completely materialistic, and our shallow minds cannot comprehend a different state of mind that values more solid things, like new discoveries, inventions, advances in technology, etc.

This is what nobody can understand, that the true change, must first come within us. This is why I say that we have to change the way we think.

So to answer directly to your question: No, this wouldnt happen, because people simply would not want something unique that is only pretty, and doesnt offer them anything real. For, what use does a gold wristwatch has over a common metallic one? No further use at all, it is only considered valuable because it is mostly made of gold, and it is also shiny and pretty. In the society I mentioned, gold will probably have very limited use, being applicable only when it is more efficient than other metals.

But if someone made a wristwatch that has more functions and it is technically an improvement over other common wristwatches, then that model would go into production, and replace other older models. Like I already said, when someone makes something, whether that is a new discovery, or an invention, or simply an upgrade to something we already use, they contribute that to the society, receiving credit and emotional gratification for it.

As for personal preferences, aka someone wants that other cell phone that suits them better, because it is smaller, lighter, etc, then I really do not see why we should have only 1 model of everything, when right now we produce hundreds of different models of cell phones, and in fact new models come out literally every day.

The wristwatch and the cell phone were just examples. You get the point.

Greed is embedded in our current society, thus it only seems normal to you, that if there is something unique in the world, suddenly everyone would want it, even if it is inefficient, or inferior to existing items on production. This wont be the case if our society has eliminated the root causes of greed.

For, what makes people want something they dont already have? Scarcity, that is the cause of greed. If someone told you that only 10 cars exist in the whole world today, and each one of them lasted for 20 years before it breaks down, wouldnt you want 1 of them? Of course you would, driving a car is must faster and much more convenient than walking. If you literally had everything you need, with society providing you all these goods, then you wouldnt crave for something, just because of its uniqueness, considering that your mind is not corrupted by the current trends and notions of our society.

In the older days, there was true scarcity in the world, as we didnt have the kind of technology needed to produce certain goods, to extract valuable materials like gold, silver etc, we didnt even have the kind of technology needed to make enough food for everyone. Right now, we do have that kind of technology, and looking at the hi-tech chicken farms is a good example.

Right now, scarcity is artificially being created by most of the big multinational companies in the world. Example: Lamborgini has made a relevantly new model, called "Reventon". They produced only 20 of them for the public, making it 1 of the rarest supercars to ever come into production, making most "petrolheads" on earth to want to drive it, even for a few minutes. They burn diamonds in certain places in the world, thus making them more scarce than they already are. I dont think I need to give more examples, as to how scarcity is being forced in our society.

The thing is, that currently the notion that you must have something that is rare/scarce is embedded in our society, to an extent never seen before. And it is rooted deep inside ones mind, as we are constantly being bombarded by commercials telling us that "you must acquire this, you must have that", and that brings people into such a materialistic state of mind, that we come to the point where we literally give more value to our property, than a human life, on some cases.

In short, no this barter thing you mentioned, would not happen, considering that what I said takes effect, aka we redesign our culture, and change the way we think, thus creating a completely new society.

I hope you can understand that, and if not, well, sorry about that

 

Note: When you said "How will you bring the majority...." and "but in your system", why the reference in second person?

1. I cannot do anything to change the whole world, and

2. This is not MY system, this is the Venus Project, slightly altered to fit my beliefs (example: the VP says that we can all have state of the art technology, and use it on a mass scale. I disagree, we dont need the best thing that technology has to offer, we can live just fine with more basic goods).

"My Pokemans. Let me show you them"

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January 10, 2011 10:26:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Irrelevant, but really funny video

"My Pokemans. Let me show you them"

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January 11, 2011 1:51:26 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hmm... So the basic concept is, change the materialistic mindset, and the rest should come pretty easily.

Difficult to be sure.

As a reply to the note: I know it's not your system, just the one you believe is the correct one for the future, but I had to refer to it somehow

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January 11, 2011 5:25:08 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

An interesting read morph. maybe you should.......................write a magazine article

Alot of what is said is true, but the only problem I see is how you unite people, with so many different languages and beliefs under one system(something you talked about. I know)

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January 11, 2011 2:26:46 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Oatesy03,
Hmm... So the basic concept is, change the materialistic mindset, and the rest should come pretty easily.

Difficult to be sure.

A quick and simple definition of it, but yeah, you can put it like that

And yes, nobody said it can be easy to achieve. It would be actually quite difficult, with the early generations having trouble adjusting to that society, while future ones would fit perfectly to it.

Quoting Oatesy03,
As a reply to the note: I know it's not your system, just the one you believe is the correct one for the future, but I had to refer to it somehow

I was just saying its not mine, in order to avoid creating any confusion.

Quoting Altaux,
An interesting read morph. maybe you should.......................write a magazine article

Nah, I have no interest in it Besides, my English isnt good enough.

Quoting Altaux,
Alot of what is said is true, but the only problem I see is how you unite people, with so many different languages and beliefs under one system(something you talked about. I know)

The denomination/division of people into multiple categories, from the separation of religions and languages, to the separation of color and nations, is one of the many weapons society uses today, in order to stop people from rebelling against this human oppressing system. For, you cannot rebel against someone or something you cannot clearly see. What are you gonna fight against? The US government? The German gov? Multinational companies? You get the point.

So how do you ultimately unite people in order to see the truth, and remove their blindfolds from their eyes that have been there since their birth?

Well, I already talked about this, and said that it is definitely not an easy task. I guess the best way would be to let people see it on their own, just informing them of how things are atm. Informing them that they are slaves to the system, and that they are working in order for the few to be wealthy and live in fame.

But in the end, people wont realize it on their own. I am sorry to say, that in order to redesign our culture, and create a new society, people will suffer first, before they come to the realization that we have to change.

Again, I dont like saying this, but once massive scale wars begin, with nations fighting over resources like oil and clean water, and millions of people die in a very short period of time, then people will begin to realize that this world, this society is just wrong.

I dont know what will happen in the future, I cant tell for sure, but just look at the trends and signs right now, and you can see what I'm talking about.

"My Pokemans. Let me show you them"

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January 11, 2011 2:55:52 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Interesting, but many people like having somewhere they feel they belong more than anywhere else. Some of those people will think that belonging to that group makes them better than others. Would you remove difference of belief, a sense of belonging, from those people?

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January 11, 2011 3:01:19 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Have a video that this suddenly reminded me of!

Not that I'm implying you're a bad guy Morph. Just reminded me of this, that's all.

Watch from 5:10 until about 6:00, unless you really want to see a boss battle and the cheesy "I'll protect everybody!" ending afterwards.

 

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January 11, 2011 7:41:31 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Oatesy03,
Interesting, but many people like having somewhere they feel they belong more than anywhere else. Some of those people will think that belonging to that group makes them better than others. Would you remove difference of belief, a sense of belonging, from those people?

No. In fact, people would have a feeling that they belong somewhere, because the entire planet would be their home, and every human alive would be their ally. There would not be a single place in the world where someone cannot travel, people would be able to go anywhere they want, and be welcomed in every city there is. So the sense of belonging not only does it continue to exist, but it gets stronger than ever.

As for wanting to belong in a different group than makes you better than others, this is another notion of society that we take for granted nowadays, and it exists for a very long time. In the old days, where people would have to fight and compete for food, they would usually form groups, in order to hunt animals more efficiently, and avoid having their pray stolen by someone else. This need to form groups, has been preserved until today and you can see it even in video games, where we have Clans, fighting other Clans, not to mention everything else. This "need", is nothing more than another notion of our society.

For, why would you need to form a group and feel better than others, when the whole human population is already your one and only group there is? And still, even thinking that somehow forming a group makes you better than others, or special in some way, is foolish, to say the least.

As for difference of belief, this is what makes us humans so great. Because there are always different opinions, and human imagination varies a lot from one human to another, each person's voice and beliefs would be heard all around the world, through the use of the internet. For, you cannot invent new things, or make new discoveries without having a different opinion than everyone else.

Do you really think that we would ever advance as a civilization if everyone had the exact same beliefs and opinions? Of course not.

As for religious beliefs, everyone can believe whatever they want, and nobody can take that from them. However, the religion institutions would be obsolete, as it is another form of dividing people. So if by "beliefs", you meant religious beliefs, then people would be even more free to believe whatever they want.

Lastly, there is a notion in our society, that to be proven wrong about something, is bad, that you somehow lose credibility if your beliefs are proven wrong. This is something that would be obsolete. For, to be proven wrong, is to be celebrated, as it leads to a new level of knowledge. Example: If I told you that there are 3 suns in our solar system, and you told me, "no, there is only 1", and then you went on to prove what you are saying, then not only I would not feel bad about myself and react, but I would thank you for showing me that there is only 1 sun. And since you want to update your views and beliefs as well, you would receive the same treatment from me. I would prove to you something else, that you were unaware of, thus creating a harmony between social relations.

"My Pokemans. Let me show you them"

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January 11, 2011 9:15:42 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

As for religious beliefs, everyone can believe whatever they want, and nobody can take that from them. However, the religion institutions would be obsolete, as it is another form of dividing people. So if by "beliefs", you meant religious beliefs, then people would be even more free to believe whatever they want.

There in lies the only problem. People who have different religious beleifs have atleast minor divisions in your society, becuase even if there is no institution, if someone shares your beliefs you will want to do your customs together. As a result you and said person will share a special bond becuase and said person have that link.

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January 11, 2011 10:57:23 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Altaux,
There in lies the only problem. People who have different religious beleifs have atleast minor divisions in your society, becuase even if there is no institution, if someone shares your beliefs you will want to do your customs together. As a result you and said person will share a special bond becuase and said person have that link.

So? Having friends is wrong?

What is wrong with having a special bond with someone?

This is like saying: If I believe that Black Holes have the ability to send something into another dimension, and I meet someone else who shares the same belief, that it is somehow wrong for society. How is that wrong?

I cant prove that it is true, but I cant prove it to be untrue, either. Someone else might tell me, that "No, Black Holes are parts of space that have extreme gravity, so they suck everything in, dissolving them into particles of matter." If said person cant prove that, then I belief theory #1, and they believe theory #2, with some people believing the one, and some believing the other to be true.

Same goes for religious beliefs.

I dont see why having different beliefs about something, somehow harms the society. In fact, it makes people want to think about many different theories, and consider different views, before coming to a conclusion. It gives people more subjects to discuss, more views and beliefs to share and consider, aka more food for thought.

The society I was talking about, is one that has removed the ties that keep us blindfolded, thus people always have an open mind.

"My Pokemans. Let me show you them"

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January 12, 2011 1:53:12 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Having different beliefs encourages competition, because ultimately and usually, one of you is right and the other is wrong. You both believe you are right. Of course, when you're both wrong, it usually creates a bond between you, as now you both want to find the right answer, having got it wrong together. On the other hand, if one of you is actually right, there is a massive range of reactions that could occur in the wrong person, ranging from anger, to jealousy, but of course to good-natured emotions as well.

 

PS what about the people who blindfold themselves?

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January 12, 2011 5:47:26 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Having different beliefs encourages competition, because ultimately and usually, one of you is right and the other is wrong. You both believe you are right. Of course, when you're both wrong, it usually creates a bond between you, as now you both want to find the right answer, having got it wrong together. On the other hand, if one of you is actually right, there is a massive range of reactions that could occur in the wrong person, ranging from anger, to jealousy, but of course to good-natured emotions as well.

thats what I meant. There is nothing wrong with having friends, but a religious bond is usually stronger than that.

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January 12, 2011 10:42:23 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ok, I havent thought about what you guys are saying, so you may be on to something here.

As I have already stated, this society is NOT perfect, otherwise it would be named Utopia

And a true utopian society can never exist.

Now, having said that, I cannot give you a direct answer that "no, people with different beliefs wont compete, etc", but I CAN tell you this:

Even if people somewhat compete to prove their beliefs are correct, and to prove others wrong, I dont think that this would destroy the society, because people would only do it for the society, not for themselves. Basically believing in something and trying to prove it for the good of humanity, to contribute something to the society, and feel good about it.

Now, about religious beliefs, because as you know, they usually cant be proved, you cannot know who is wrong, and who is right. This means that you, and that other person who believes something you dont, share a common ignorance, for you cannot prove anything about this particular belief.

If people could stop holding on to religion as much as they do now, then they may focus on some more solid, more important things like co-existing with the environment in harmony, avoiding conflict at all times, and help humanity as much as possible, every way they can.

I am NOT saying "screw religion", but stop being so attached to it. If you are an atheist, and I believe in God, then why is that wrong? I believe in something I cannot prove, and same goes for you (in which case you cannot disprove the existence of God).

A lot of things come to mind atm, but I would like to refrain from sharing, because I am not sure about them.

 

In short, you cant know for sure if people would compete about their unproven beliefs, but I dont think that this would threaten our society, because the bonds that people share, and having in mind more solid and pressing matters would contribute in avoiding global conflict by people competing with each other for their beliefs.

 

One more thing I wanted to say: If you are trying to find things that would render this society I have described implausible or unsustainable, then I am sure you can find some. But that doesnt change the facts that:

1. It is a lot better than what we have now.

2. You cannot predict what can/will happen in the future. (For all I know I may be talking bullshit about this society. All this may very well fail if attempted to be put into effect.)

3. Nothing stops us from trying to change the world for the better. If the Wright brothers thought "Man, our airplane is not going to ever fly for real. There is a big chance that we will fail." and abandoned their efforts, then they would have achieved nothing at all.

"My Pokemans. Let me show you them"

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January 13, 2011 1:51:35 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I am NOT saying "screw religion", but stop being so attached to it.

Errm... That's a difficult thing to get people to do Morph.

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January 13, 2011 2:32:38 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Oatesy03,
Errm... That's a difficult thing to get people to do Morph.

Well, not really. Because even though you want to believe in something, you dont have to hang on to it, and circle your life around your religious beliefs.

And considering that in the society I was talking about, most of our world's suffering that we see today, would not exist, aka people wont starve to death, there would be no wars, no human labor etc etc, then people will not need religion as much they need it now.

"My Pokemans. Let me show you them"

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January 13, 2011 3:15:09 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I kinda agree with limey.  Religion is not so easy to just unattach yourself from. Look around and see how much of your life involves religion in some way.

 

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January 13, 2011 3:39:13 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This how you have been taught. Imagine living in a country where everyone were atheists. You would be an atheist too.

Same goes for all religions. In my country, the most dominant religion is Christian Orthodox, so I am (supposed to) be one as well.

Quoting Altaux,
Religion is not so easy to just unattach yourself from.

You cant. This can only happen during time, from generation to generation.

"My Pokemans. Let me show you them"

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January 13, 2011 1:25:01 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

And then, only if the next generation wants to.

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January 13, 2011 1:38:40 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

RELIGION

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January 13, 2011 1:42:58 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Syneptus,
RELIGION

Agreed.

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