The Big Update: "High End Favor Items"

By on November 8, 2009 5:25:02 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Polynomial

Join Date 02/2008
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High End Favor Items. We’re discussing new high end favor items. They won’t be in this week but the idea is to have things beyond “blood of the fallen” and such that are simply better but cost more.

I don't think this is a good idea, Frogboy. Everyone has a bazillion favor points. I think instead time should be spent on items that force decision making to be made about choosing between items with different benefits, than outright buying better favor items.

Bring on Brad's Item Pack though! =P

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November 8, 2009 6:24:40 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Everyone has a bazillion favor points.

Good point... still, I'm not going to complain too much about new content.  Depending on how diverse they go with this, instead of typically choosing BotF, I'll just start picking NEW ITEM 1 to cash in my bazillion favor points.  Might be fun for new players, but no real impact to those of us that have been around for awhile. 

All that said, here's a suggestion.  Recognizing that those of us with alot of favor will simply instantly unlock whatever you add (unless there some undeclared favor reset here in the works), this is a move that's geared towards newer players.  Why not increase the prices on the more frequently used favor items.  For instance, why isn't BoTF more expensive?  It's probably the most used favor item out there.  How about increasing the cost of swift anklet?  Its used quite a bit as well.  If the goal is give people who like grinding favor points more options, that seems like a decent place to start. 

So, hoping to see some new items that are better than BoTF, but not the item that is simply BotF + 100 additional HP. 

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November 8, 2009 6:31:17 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

My main concern is that we currently have a handful of viable top-end favor items:

  • Blood of the Fallen
  • Blade of the Serpent
  • Cloak of Night
  • Staff of Renewal
  • Swift Anklet

All of those can be used on different DGs to good effect on a number of different maps. You then have a group of second tier items that are useful for specific DGs or on specific maps.

 

So unless the new pack of elite/expensive favor items has at least 8 or so competitive items, we're likely to see a decrease in the number of viable favor choices.

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November 8, 2009 6:41:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I agree that making new favor items, that are simply better in every way is not a good idea. The downside of being more expensive is completely irrelevant. Favor items should be balanced beyond that.

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November 8, 2009 6:41:46 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I tend to agree Poly. I play with a small number of favour items, depending on the builds and strategies my team and I are going to use, and there are some that are simply not good enough.

The problem is you can add as many high end favour items as you'd like, but they'll simply replace everything underneath them. Make something better than Blood of the Fallen? People will just pick that instead of Blood of the Fallen. Make something better than Swift Anklet, and the same problem occurs.

The 'tiers' of favour points basically means that the lower tier items are never selected. Ever. I literally have maybe four items purchased, and the rest simply aren't different enough or good enough or are far too situational to warrant consideration. I think the differentiation between 'High End' items and 'Low End' items needs to be removed entirely, and all items simply balanced to be on the same level. This would require significant changes, yes, but at the least opens up the field. Bejewelled Goggles, for example. If they removed the Fog of War entirely they'd become far more attractive, albiet probably a little overpowered for Regulus with Snipe - but you get the basic idea.

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November 8, 2009 7:30:41 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i agree with polynomial.

just increase the effectiveness of the other items we have alrdy.

 

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November 8, 2009 7:31:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ZehDon,
I tend to agree Poly. I play with a small number of favour items, depending on the builds and strategies my team and I are going to use, and there are some that are simply not good enough.

The problem is you can add as many high end favour items as you'd like, but they'll simply replace everything underneath them. Make something better than Blood of the Fallen? People will just pick that instead of Blood of the Fallen. Make something better than Swift Anklet, and the same problem occurs.

The 'tiers' of favour points basically means that the lower tier items are never selected. Ever. I literally have maybe four items purchased, and the rest simply aren't different enough or good enough or are far too situational to warrant consideration. I think the differentiation between 'High End' items and 'Low End' items needs to be removed entirely, and all items simply balanced to be on the same level. This would require significant changes, yes, but at the least opens up the field. Bejewelled Goggles, for example. If they removed the Fog of War entirely they'd become far more attractive, albiet probably a little overpowered for Regulus with Snipe - but you get the basic idea.

and this!

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November 8, 2009 7:33:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think the main point is that each favour item must possess a specific utility value that sets it apart from the others. "Aren't different enough" is right. The lower tier items simply do not give a high enough opportunity cost to even affect decision making.

If stealth was more significant and sight radius was obstructed by objects on the map, perhaps goggle would be of more value. Also, how about a favour item that locks all flags that are in your team's possession for 5 seconds? Perhaps one that blinds a target Demigod (sight radius set to 1)?

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November 8, 2009 7:42:20 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

there are so many good ideas that have been put out there on what favor items could do but its a shame since no one pays any notice to them.

but here's my thread on what favor items could be like...

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November 8, 2009 8:29:55 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting SyDaemon,
If stealth was more significant and sight radius was obstructed by objects on the map, perhaps goggle would be of more value. Also, how about a favour item that locks all flags that are in your team's possession for 5 seconds? Perhaps one that blinds a target Demigod (sight radius set to 1)?


Exactly
To me, Favour items should've been an opportunity to shape a build, where as purchaseable items should improve a build.
For example, changing Goggles to increase your visual radius while also adding a Blinding effect to your direct damage abilities, like Spit, Snipe, Bite, etc., creates a new dynamic and really opens up the game for some interesting builds or play styles. Changing the useless Death Penalty Reduction on Charm of Life to increasing the Death Penalty for those you kill (and more than 10%) makes the item more attractive while adding to the strategic depth - increasing the time one of your opponents is off of the field isn't something to ignore.

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November 8, 2009 9:01:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I agree with most of the ideas here.  The limited number of useful favor items decreases the amount of diversity that this game could have.  However, I wouldn't mind if Blood of the Falllen were nerfed slightly, rather than having every item boosted to its level.  I feel like Stardock would have to give many favor items radical boosts to make them as good as BotF, which could result in new imbalances between the different demigods.  Finding an inbetween strength would be better imo.

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November 9, 2009 12:29:38 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'd start by making the unused favor items more useful before considering the introduction of new ones. Just a thought.

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November 9, 2009 4:02:57 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This makes me really sad.

 

Nobody wants this.  Most people who play this game a lot don't want or need an advantage over beginners.

 

Most people want the exact opposite.  People have been clamoring for balanced favor items along with balancing useless regular items for a while.

 

I'll tell you exactly what happened:  Some guy at GPG was all stoked on Call of Duty 4/2 coming out in a few days and figured the incentive based system would work for Demigod's favor items. If anyone from GPG actually played this game they would know an incentive system isn't good for a strategy game like this.  Chess wouldn't be much fun if the guy who played more got an extra Queen on his side would it?

 

Doesn't seem like people from GPG pay any attention to these forums if they're even considering this.  Bummer...

 

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November 9, 2009 4:49:59 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I agree with everybody too.

We need the existing favor items balanced first, and then the new ones.

Better new favor items would just make the existing ones more useless.

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November 9, 2009 5:28:42 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Thundercles,
This makes me really sad.
I'll tell you exactly what happened:  Some guy at GPG was all stoked on Call of Duty 4/2 coming out in a few days and figured the incentive based system would work for Demigod's favor items
Doesn't seem like people from GPG pay any attention to these forums if they're even considering this.  Bummer...

Pessimist and idiot

Think about your COD4:2 comment for a second

I totally agree with the general comments made here. Favour needs more balance not more of them.

However I feel that Stardock and GPG will be afraid to change over the entire favour system. Mainly cause it wasnt what they designed and created. They will feel slightly insulted about having to change it and unwillingly to change it to what we have suggested. I would love to see the favour system changed but I dont expect it to be changed too quickly if ever.

Also it seems like something maybe for DG2 or DG:<insert expansion name here>

I would Love to be proved wrong however

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November 9, 2009 6:46:44 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Once we have modding tools, we can correct these problems ourselves. Once we reach the right balance, the mod will gain popularity on it's own and, going by what Frogboy has said in the past, it stands a fair chance of being adopted offically if the community likes it.

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November 9, 2009 9:08:39 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Adding benefits and balancing to the current unused favor items would make them more viable in game.  I think that would a better approach than adding new items.

 

Besides who's going to get COD 6 after Infinity Ward just bent the PC community over a barrel and said "Hey boy, you look mighty cute in dem jeans"

I think i will stick with demigod. (and i've been playing cod religiously since cod 1)

j

 

 

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November 9, 2009 1:37:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting pacov,

Recognizing that those of us with alot of favor will simply instantly unlock whatever you add (unless there some undeclared favor reset here in the works), this is a move that's geared towards newer players.  Why not increase the prices on the more frequently used favor items.  For instance, why isn't BoTF more expensive? 

Do we really want new players to be playing on an unlevel playing field for a longer time?  They are already getting their asses kicked because they have no clue that HP > than all for equipment.

High end favor items serve no purpose but to have a go to item to replace the few that we use now.  At best they'll let veterans beat up on new players for a while longer until the new players 1) leave or 2) get enough favor to get the items themselves.  Favor items should be be equally desirable (pipe dream, I know).

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November 9, 2009 1:40:34 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Yeah... I don't see the point in a move like this.  Favor is not at all hard to come by and this would further compound the problem that most people have with favor items as it is.

There's already a good pool of items to play with.  Balance those.  Make some of that variety viable.  I'd be eccstatic to see new content but not if it's thrown in with the sole purpose of making the old content obsolete.

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November 9, 2009 4:21:14 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting _Golgoth_,

Pessimist and idiot.

Think about your COD4:2 comment for a second

I totally agree with the general comments made here. Favour needs more balance not more of them.

However I feel that Stardock and GPG will be afraid to change over the entire favour system. Mainly cause it wasnt what they designed and created. They will feel slightly insulted about having to change it and unwillingly to change it to what we have suggested. I would love to see the favour system changed but I dont expect it to be changed too quickly if ever.

Also it seems like something maybe for DG2 or DG:<insert expansion name here>

I would Love to be proved wrong however

 

As you children like to say, the favor system as they designed it is fail.  Only the newest of noobs, who imo don't need any more of a handicap than they already have, don't have access to all the favor items.

 

I don't see the problem with changing over the favor system for two reasons:

 

1) It doesn't work as originally intended.  Nobody who actually plays this game would want it to, so why go through the effort of trying add "simply better but cost more" items?

 

2) Its just as easy as what they're thinking of doing.  They want to add new items that are better?  Why not put the same effort into modifying the existing items that nobody uses?  Equal amounts of expense and effort, one would make player base happy, the other would upset existing players and make it harder for newer players to play the game.

 

If they want kids like you to get to feel uber leet, maybe they should just make all the items red tiger camo colored when you play long enough.

 

 

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November 9, 2009 4:42:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ugh like I tried to say this morning (Forums go boom -.-) have you guys ever stopped to think maybe he meant OTHER than blood of the fallen? Im surprised someone else hasn't said this yet it's used quite often where I live.

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November 9, 2009 5:07:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

As someone already suggested, one good idea concerning favor items would be they are few different fav item groups that costs the same amount of favor points. For example: ordinary favor items could be set in 3 groups: 1st cost 500 points, 2nd is 1000 points and 3rd is 2000 points. And each group is equally balanced within it self. Assassins & General favor items should have 2 groups only; one cost 1000, other 2000 favor points.

I think that would be a good idea for now, cause some other idea of changing how favor items should work would be much harder to apply, except if we're of course going for  balancing all favor items equally and not by grouping them.

but, what do you think?

This new 'high end fav items' should then be balanced with some of the 'good old items' and put in the best items group(of 2000 points)

 

P.S.  and i would really like that much more fav items have active ability use in addition to their passive bonuses, rather than having only passive effect or only active effect (but not all that way of course )

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November 9, 2009 5:39:19 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Yeah... I don't see the point in a move like this. Favor is not at all hard to come by and this would further compound the problem that most people have with favor items as it is.

I don't see the point either regarding making new super expensive favor items (no prob with getting some new items or rebalanced old ones).  Again, the decision logically has to be directed towards new players as there would be no impact to most of us UNLESS their is a favor reset.  And if its for new players, then its really just amping up the difficulty more for them.  But if SD thinks new players will enjoy grinding away levels, then so be it.  It's probably safe, as crazy as it sounds, to assume that more people are playing this game in single player than online... and if they aren't modifying their game.prefs file for unlimited favor, perhaps they'd get some more replay value with new super expensive items. 

So - new content = yay.  Balancing older content = smarter. 

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November 9, 2009 5:58:23 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm not sure what the point of this is.  It won't bring in new players, and it seems like random bloat otherwise.  WE already have a bunch of items that no one uses... if you want to make the game more dynamic and interesting, make those ones better.  Almost seems like this is the 'well, we don't know how to balance, so we'll just add more stuff'.

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November 9, 2009 6:46:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

favor items shouldnt cost anything. they should rather be some sort of early customization for tweaking the char into the direction of the build one wants to play. and since there are only a few really useful items, the rest should be balanced before putting new ones into the game.

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November 9, 2009 11:13:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

For my vote, I'd suggest:

  1. Balance all of the items to be equally powerful
  2. Set all favor costs to be the same

This way you can try out items with different strategies, and not merely save up until you can afford the best ones. It also doesn't penalize the newbies for having lows amounts of favor. I'd furthermore suggest that the blood of the fallen should cost 0 favor points. It would give newbies a good starting item to give them a solid starting build to use. This way they won't get lured into using items that "sound" good, but don't turn out to be that useful in the long run.

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