Please help me get better with Oak!

By on October 27, 2009 4:57:23 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Esuzu

Join Date 06/2009
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Hello,

I've been playing Demigod a while now and consider myself pretty decent with some Demigods (and very bad with some...). Lately I have been playing a lot of Oak to try to get better with him. I think I am doing alright with Oak atm but I want to get better. Is there any possibility anyone of you can watch the replay I am uploading and give me tips on how to improve my playstyle?

I will be very grateful for any help I can get!

Here is the replay:

Replay

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October 27, 2009 5:04:57 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

here's something I havn't really seen you do in the games we played:

spirits do HUGE dps, get them! (ofcourse it's also possible that I'm blind and you did use them)

you seemed to be ok to me though

 

you should read the post I just made about fighting with a flag disadvantage, that was about our last game

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October 29, 2009 11:17:50 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Dont need to get spirits to play oak well

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October 29, 2009 11:40:23 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Because you said please I will watch this for you.

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October 29, 2009 11:52:08 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Based on what happens up until 5th level.

I don't like assassin Oak. Try a hyrbrid with spirits, monks, archers, minotaurs.

Your build was assassin Oak, which I don't like. But the real killer is getting Penitence 1 first. Its useless. Shield 1.

You didn't buy any armors. Stacking Vlemish/Plenor alone is not a good idea.

Don't be afraid to use favor items other than Blood of the Fallen.

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October 29, 2009 12:31:56 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Polynomial,
Based on what happens up until 5th level.

I don't like assassin Oak. Try a hyrbrid with spirits, monks, archers, minotaurs.

Your build was assassin Oak, which I don't like. But the real killer is getting Penitence 1 first. Its useless. Shield 1.

You didn't buy any armors. Stacking Vlemish/Plenor alone is not a good idea.

Don't be afraid to use favor items other than Blood of the Fallen.

Cheers. Never tried with spirits etc. Though is really minotaurs necessary? I've always thought they sucked. Might try that.

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October 29, 2009 12:33:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I like them. Just my opinion.

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October 29, 2009 4:27:33 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

minotaurs are nice late game when you have enough gold to buy em, they add some dps so they're usefull, they can also be used to distract towers / explore the map / destroy reg mines / ...

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October 29, 2009 7:46:32 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm not a pro, though i usually play Oak, mostly assassin.  Looking at your replay, a few notes:

1) You kept both your monks for yourself.  Due to the way monks work, two wouldn't heal you any more than one, so might as well give one to one of your mates, usually one who does more melee fighting (UB in case of that game).

2) At around 4:00, you went for the XP flag instead of defending the tower.  One demigod is sometimes enough to chase two away from a tower, and you going there may have encouraged the TB to stick around too (making it 2v2 at your tower).  XP flag is important, but you can cap it later; can't rebuild the tower, and losing it is a big strategic disadvantage.

3) The first to equipment items you got were Vlemish Faceguard and Plenor Battlecrown.  That's 3,250 gold.  For that price, I'd get Banded Armor (550) and Scaled Helm (550), then get Currency 1 upgrade for the citadel (1800) which will put you ahead in gold later.   You'll end up with more HP and HP regen => end up staying in field longer.  True, less mana, that means though you have to use your abilities carefully.

4) Paid attention to what's happening on the other side of the map and TPed in - good.

5) Running many times past enemy-owned flags and towers - bad, invites ganks, good thing they didn't react that fast.

6) 1v1 vs Sedna with monks and more HP than you at 8:20 - that's a losing battle, can't win.  

7) No one teleported in to save the portal at around 12:30 (? time approximate).

8) Past 6:00 or so it's best to always carry at least one flag lock.  If you had a flag lock, you could have prevented the opponents from retaking your portal at 14:00. 

At that point the opponents have enough advantage over you, so you couldn't have done much.

Aside from that, your skill and favor choice w/ oak is pretty much the same as mine, except I also try to carry a Sigil of Vitality, to help me stay and fight longer (or help me escape).

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October 29, 2009 10:57:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ok I havent seen any build good advice here, assasin oak trumps spirits oak most of the time because most demigods outrun spirits anyway and if there are any towers up you have to keep a steady stream of creep kills to keep your spirits up. Spirits can be counterd and assasin oak cant be.

I actually just tried a hybrid minion build in a 2v2 against an assasin oak, and it failed.  The best oak build is to focus on max pent and surge, get to sheild 3, then max divine justice.  Start with blood, unbreakable boots, plenor battlecrown, nimoth chest, vlemish helm.  The mana items scale well with how often your going to be using surge and pent, which when fighting is whenever the cooldown is up.  But remember to save pent if the you are playing someone who ports out alot and you do not have another person to interupt it.

 

Skill pt progression should go Sheild, Pent, Divine Justice, Pent, Surge, Sheild, Pent, Sheild, Divine Justice, surge two, divine justice, pent, the rest of the points u can put into raise dead ward and save for lvl 15 skills to max out divine justice and surge.

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October 30, 2009 12:24:05 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

didn't watch the replay but thought i'd comment on some of the posts..

 

double helm is fine.  In fact, those are the first 2 items i buy.. and I don't go back to shop until I have the gold for those 2 and usually a teleport (basically no shopping until lvl 7).  This only works well if you're the teams solo person on cataract (aka you get mana flag and xp flag.. you don't run back to base.. you don't die.. if that means you don't fight, then don't fight.. and you kill every wave of creep before you go to get the other flag).  If you don't have a level advantage, you will need hp over 2 helms at first.

 

no spirits are fine as well.  I go pen (just to spite the ppl who always say shield.. I'm not fighting 1v1 until lvl 2, and if I'm with an ally or two, penitence will make all of us do more dmg to the target, OWNED), then shield, dj, pen, surge, shield, pen, shield, save, pen / surge, dj dj dj save rally / surge.

 

so..

I don't like assassin Oak. Try a hyrbrid with spirits, monks, archers, minotaurs.

I like assassin Oak.  Screw spirits, archers, minotaurs.  Monks are irrelevant, you should always have them as a general

Your build was assassin Oak, which I don't like. But the real killer is getting Penitence 1 first. Its useless. Shield 1.

Assassin oak is great.  Pen 1 @ lvl 1 has just as many uses as Shield 1 @ lvl 1.  Most of the time, the only fights you will get into @ lvl 1 are if you are double in the fort, where Pen 1 will increase your dmg as well as your partner.. or @ the xp flag in the beginning, which can easily be a 3v3 situation and then it's extra damage for BOTH your teammates and you

You didn't buy any armors. Stacking Vlemish/Plenor alone is not a good idea.

It definitely can be.  I've gone several entire games with nothing but vlemish/plenor/unbreakables

Don't be afraid to use favor items other than Blood of the Fallen.

as assassin oak, definitely be afraid to use other favor items other than BotF

 

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October 30, 2009 3:46:03 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hybrid oak is the best, if you're not winning you're doing it wrong. I should postr a guide oneday lol.

 

Drop shield, its not that good.

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October 30, 2009 4:48:03 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I used to suck with Oak cause it took me a lot of experimenting to figure out what RAWRRR posted.  Also I only play him when I'm in over my head or have a beginner on my team so my win percentage sucks really bad with him.

 

But yeah... try that out, assassin oak with Monks is great.

 

Just remember that Oak is weak at first but is a ticking clock of winningness if you can keep things close till level 10.

 

One thing RAWRRR didn't mention was keep in mind you're way more powerful fighting in a creep battle mid game since surge (plus divine justice!) heals you and your buddies along with everything else it does... which is pretty much everything.

 

And one thing he mentioned which needs to be said again is Blood is the only favor item for assassin oak.  Cloak of Night might seem better since you can get more kills against lesser opponents but it won't seem that great against good players.

 

And one thing someone said that I think was sarcastic was "Drop shield, its not that good."  Funny stuff...

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October 30, 2009 5:25:32 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

"

One thing RAWRRR didn't mention was keep in mind you're way more powerful fighting in a creep battle mid game since surge (plus divine justice!) heals you and your buddies along with everything else it does... which is pretty much everything.

 "

It also makes your creep wave attack faster , Penttience to do more damage. Use with Giants for devastating results.

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October 30, 2009 2:16:43 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

ya i've gone into more detail in other oak threads.

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October 30, 2009 6:23:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks for the tips all. Renewed my hope in an assasin oak.

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October 30, 2009 7:25:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting lifekatana,
Hybrid oak is the best, if you're not winning you're doing it wrong. I should postr a guide oneday lol.

 

Drop shield, its not that good.

It... isn't?  I'm pretty sure Shield is one of the strongest abilities Oak has, especially as the game progresses.

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November 14, 2009 4:47:26 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It... isn't? I'm pretty sure Shield is one of the strongest abilities Oak has, especially as the game progresses.

Only shied 3 is amazing, the other levels are pretty useless because they are vulnerable to stuns and interrupts. You can totally drop shield as Oak, and still be ok, and replace it with spirits. those things really boost up Oak's damage. I've played both aspects of Oak (pure minion and pure assassin) but I have to say that hybrid rules.

my skills by level 13 are: Penitence IV, SoF II, Last Stand I, Spirits IV, Soul Power I, DJ I. This build requires a lot of mana therefore my first priority items are Velmish + Pleanor + Unbreakable Boots. I run this build with Cloak of Night for MORE mana and the usefull wrap (for escaping or scoring a kill). If I feel that game is going to last way longer than lvl 13, then I start scaling shield up to III.

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November 16, 2009 8:47:04 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I haven't watched the replay yet, but I don't see what the big to-do about spirits is. They're quite fragile and not particularly versatile. I would never go minion oak against an assassin oak, for example, and nor would I likely pick it against UB, rook, TB, or QoT.

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November 16, 2009 10:38:09 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Every minion build I tried, had fundamental flaws. I find Assassin Oak way better, but that's just my opinion. I play Oak as a mana beast. That's 2 helms and Unbreakable Boots. So Health and Mana max around 5000-5500. Teamed with Erebus or Beast, you'll take stuff apart... Pestilence spam FTW.

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November 16, 2009 10:48:25 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

HYBRID. Lemme say it again TAKE THEM BOTH. You only get shield later on(like 12+) and for the rest you get both spritis and pent. Shield isn't that usefull cept for level 3, yeah sure 4 secs of invul. I dont care, I just walk a bit back and my spirits will make up for those few seconds in no time. If you're in danger a  lot then you're doing it wrong too, the only reason I would take shield early is for (stupid) teammates. My superior damage, utility(tower killing and scouting for snipes) pretty much always mean I win from a assasin oak. I do get shield later on though.

tl;dr

Spirits do HUGE damage stack with pent, can scout, and are very very usefull for taking down towers. And they allow uyou to push well.

 

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November 16, 2009 11:10:10 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Superior damage against what? Honestly when I'm assassin oak vs. hybrid oak the spirits literally heal me for than they damage me.

As UB I passively grind up the spirits and a shieldless oak is constantly on the run, for rook only a HoB spirit build can penetrate the towers, etc. etc. I used to play a spirit/hybrid oak myself, and I just don't think all that effective outisde of a few very specific matchups.

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November 16, 2009 12:02:56 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hybrid oak does more single target damage than any other demigod. With simple gear (nothing more expensive than 3k)
Full pen, surge and minions My oak build can take 2 demigods on at a time.. Sadly, this will be late game. And with noob speed items (boots and anklet) You wont kill me without a gank. My last oak build game I had 12 kills and 5 levels on everyone else in the game.

This build ^^ is a real liability early game, and unless you have tmates that can hold the lines. You'll be running a lot. Which isn't bad if you cap flags al game and get bishops early.

If the game goes over 40 minutes you can also kill demis at their crystal.
Items I like: vlemish, nimoths plate, the health boosting one with the minions thats right beside nimoths, speed boots and plenor with noob anks for favor item. You get bishops as soon as you can and stack up on all minions.

An Assasin oak wont stand long enough against it to do any damage. You just have to watch out for chain stuns, UB's are the scary ones. Rook towers make me laugh. They kill minons? lol 8 towers focus firing spirits would mean a very dead rook.

at 13 you get Pen 800 + surge 500, Then you have 16 minions doing +16% at +15% speed plus 400 AA shots from yourself.
Hold the second pen for a strategic moment and enemies can't escape or chase.

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November 16, 2009 1:23:53 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I know that the nominal damage of spirits is high, but they are rather suicidal and need good micro, and they can't chase runing targets very well. You'll also have all skills such as Divine Justice, Shield, Pestilence, Surge upto 5 levels after an Assasin Oak.

Some replays of successful hybrid oaks gameplay would be nice. Can you provide some? But no noob bashing please, only games vs reasonable, experienced players.

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November 16, 2009 2:14:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i am with ntropy here. sure the dmg of the spirits may be top but they are bad to control, worse than any other minon. they fly so stupid arround getting killed by towers.

additionally you aquire them not so easy. i think it is besser to start as assasin and begin by level 10 arround to get them. in this way you are more anoying early on and still can get your decent single target dps later.

 

but i am no expert with oak. but i never saw a minoin oak being dangerous except when we got past level 13. the team benefits from shield, penitance etc so much more. most people seem to not concider team aspects well enough.

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November 16, 2009 2:20:41 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

ntropy, i play a "hybrid" oak, i'll get you some replays tonight.

However it's not "hybrid" till after level 11 lol.

at level 15 i have max pen, max surge, shield 3, soul power 1, divine justive 1,  and 3 levels in spirits.

 

j

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