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Minion counters.

By on October 18, 2009 6:34:23 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It seems many people have trouble countering minion builds (ala LE).  These are ways to kill minions, and not just ignore them. I have found a few ways (some of which are very obious) to try to counter minion builds. Basically anything that is good on grunts will work well with minions.  In no particular order, and these are not nessisarily solo strats, but rather make it easier to kill them off.

1: UB: Ooze.  Slows attack speeds, and does AOE damage, this with post mortum/ plauge seems to work well.

2: TB.. yes?

3: Reg: AF for aoe.  Works good on minions but AA sucks VS competent demis.  High level mine work great, as does tagging the general with MoB.

4: Rook:  Hammer works wonders later, but personally Im a tower guy.  I find that putting some points into god strengh and stats can really mow down minions with your stong aa that does splash.

5: LE:  Minions to counter minions. (RoDM  favor makes em throw smaller units).  Batswarm and Mass Charm help also.

6: QOT: Her  AOE damage is impressive. Ground spike deal dmg, and lower armor, and spike wave can be a good AOE also.  As well her open from AA does splash.   Theoretically Shamblers should also be a good counter, as they do damage to all in the path, but QOT minion build tends to not be the best overall.

7: OAK:  I really dont play oak, but Surge of Faith and his own minions seem to be viable.

8: SED: I got nothing. Heal at late levels does AOE, but hardly any.

 

By no means a good stategy guide, but I hope it gives some people ideas on how to try and fight off minions/mass grunts.

 

+4 Karma | 43 Replies
October 18, 2009 6:45:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

its QoT's closed form that does a small aoe.

October 18, 2009 7:17:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ooze UB is our general counter to minions.  Sedna against a minion player, simply run away.  Ice TB is the best, but any competent erebus playing against a TB will go assasin and own his ass.  Oak does pretty decent with Surge later on, and his divine justice can keep him in it long enough.  

October 18, 2009 7:24:14 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ooze Ub is a counter to any build. is there is and counter to ooze ub?

October 18, 2009 7:41:58 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Countering Minion Builds isn't just a matter of which build to play, but how you play it. For example, I quite often play LE Minion Build, and have seen some pretty inventive counters which I have to adapt my play style to avoid.
For example, an Ice TB lured me away from the creep waves before AoEing my minions down - because I was too far from the Creeps my minions didn't respawn as they were killed, and he effectively killed off a very large portion of my DPS in one shot leaving me in some serious trouble.
I've seen Sedna, not sure which build, use a Yeti to move around and behind an Oak, attack and kill their Totems, and lure him back into her Towers, destroying their minions and leaving Oak with - again - a missing piece of their DPS. And yes, Sedna got the kill.

October 18, 2009 8:23:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

 use a Yeti to move around and behind an Oak, attack and kill their Totems

Well you learn something new everyday. I was unaware that you could destroy the Oak's totems at all.

October 18, 2009 8:28:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting SyDaemon,

 use a Yeti to move around and behind an Oak, attack and kill their Totems
Well you learn something new everyday. I was unaware that you could destroy the Oak's totems at all.

 

you didn't know a Yeti could do this?!  Only yeti's have the power to destroy oak's "totems" which then destroy all of oak's minions (sometimes called raised dead wards by the uneducated masses).

October 18, 2009 8:37:16 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quickest, most universal counter is armor. IE: Armor of Vengenance.

October 18, 2009 9:12:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Polynomial,
Quickest, most universal counter is armor. IE: Armor of Vengenance.

Yup! People obsess with health stacking when there are times they should be using armor.

October 18, 2009 9:29:36 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

yes especially one that reflects damage back.  also find natures reckoning to be nice if your lacking in aoes.

October 18, 2009 9:31:25 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting RAWRRRR,
you didn't know a Yeti could do this?!  Only yeti's have the power to destroy oak's "totems" which then destroy all of oak's minions (sometimes called raised dead wards by the uneducated masses).


Haha, well, any Minion from any general can - you just need to select them and target the Totem. It doesn't un-summon his minions, but it prevents him from raising more. If timed correctly, you'll catch him unawares and he'll wonder why things aren't going his way

October 18, 2009 9:44:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

That's interesting and rather unintuitive. A Demigod can't do it, but a minion can. Who would have known?

October 18, 2009 9:50:03 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

would be interesting if killing all totems did unsummon minions. 

October 18, 2009 10:44:37 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Uh, it's not just yeti's that can kill oak's wards. I'm pretty sure any summoned unit can, Shadow used to do it all the time in our games.

 

Edit: Oops, didn't read all posts. =P

October 18, 2009 11:13:43 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ZehDon,



Quoting RAWRRRR,
reply 6
you didn't know a Yeti could do this?!  Only yeti's have the power to destroy oak's "totems" which then destroy all of oak's minions (sometimes called raised dead wards by the uneducated masses).


Haha, well, any Minion from any general can - you just need to select them and target the Totem. It doesn't un-summon his minions, but it prevents him from raising more. If timed correctly, you'll catch him unawares and he'll wonder why things aren't going his way

Yes, I know for a fact that nightwalkers can kill oak's totems. I did it all the time when I played LE.

October 19, 2009 12:39:05 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I've played games where Oak level 2 surge didn't wipe out Erebus minions, so I believe nightwalkers are still a little bit broken.

October 19, 2009 4:20:18 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hmm that Totem thing is interesting

I would recommend use yetis for that however but hey

And yeh LE's Minions are broke Rav3nIX for lots of reasons I cba explaining so early in the morning

October 19, 2009 6:12:44 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Armor of vengeange + divine justice+ surge of faith/aoe.

 

Indeed wtf is the counter to ooze UB?

October 19, 2009 7:34:56 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Rage quitting. 100% effective

October 19, 2009 10:38:47 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Killing Oak's ward is so useless though. Its so easy for Oak to put down another.

October 19, 2009 12:44:16 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Rav3nIX,
I've played games where Oak level 2 surge didn't wipe out Erebus minions, so I believe nightwalkers are still a little bit broken.

The base hp of any minion is over 630. Surge 2 only does 450 so there is no way it will wipe out any minions in one shot. Surge 2 is great against reinforcements not minions.

The most effective counter to minions is AoE stuns. Dark side has a significant advantage in this regard.

October 19, 2009 2:32:02 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think what you are actually asking for is a counter to Minion Erebus as no other minions are

  • nearly as strong as his and
  • can be replaced as fast and
  • are absolutely cost-free. 

Sadly there is no counter for Minion Erebus yet. A good Minion Erebus will always kill you first in a 1vs1 battle or be able to escape in a 1vs2 situation, quickly regaining his full army.

Although QoT has 2 area-of-effect skills which should be very strong against his minions, let me tell you: You'll soon realize that the combined 1275 damage of Ground Spikes and Spike Wave is not quite enough to take down the 730 (Base Health) + 400 (Improved Conversion Aura) + 200 (Hauberk) = 1330 health Nightwalkers which will kill your slowed QoT in about 3 seconds (after Erebus' Bite).

If you're good at keeping distance you'll notice that even if you kill his whole army, he'll have his whole army back almost instantly by just standing near to the reinforcement waves: 5 soldiers and 2 archers on each side will be more than enough to regain a full army of 10 nightwalkers (14*0.8= 11.2).

Personally I hate Erebus on the enemy team. Fighting against him always feels like he is 5 levels above my Demigod.

 

October 19, 2009 7:47:52 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting CosMoe,
Sadly there is no counter for Minion Erebus yet. A good Minion Erebus will always kill you first in a 1vs1 battle or be able to escape in a 1vs2 situation, quickly regaining his full army.


Then you simply haven't asked the right people  
Minion LE is fairly easy to counter, actually, it simply requires a little more forethought than when fighting against pure Assassin build LE and an understanding that the build is designed around the concept of segmented DPS so no matter how good you are, it's simply harder to kill a Minion LE than an Assassin LE by design. The trade off it's a lot easier to gimp him because you can kill his DPS! I play Minion LE and Tower/Boulder/Slam Rook as my favourites, so I'd like to weigh in on counters to Minion LEs.

First, accept that there is no one thing you can do - besides stacking armour - to make this easier. It's simply a tough build. If you're aiming to purely counter a Minion LE, and most LE's I see on the field are Minon LEs, you need make sure you have access to AoE damage abilities. UB Ooze it's pretty good, while Ice TB is easily the best. Make sure you never engage them amongst creep waves - doesn't matter how hard you hit, they'll be respawning their minions and wearing you down the entire time, so pull them back to your Towers or get them out in the open and hit 'em hard - if they're smart they'll run like crazy, because you've just taken out a significant piece of the DPS.
Always grab DMG Upgrade one for your Towers, as the added AoE damage it gives the Towers really helps - even at level one - bring down minion swarms. Also keep in mind that most of the DPS from Minions isn't generated through the minions' DPS, but through Bite's Debuffs + Minions. Stacking armour will mitigate quite a lot of DPS from Minions, and it helps in the early stages when Erebus is relying mostly on himself for DPS. Once he reaches Max NS numbers, he'll most likely begin sending them after you on their own when he or you is retreating, as they'll be quite strong - this is where you tuck tail, hoof it back to your Towers double time - and this is why the DMG Upgrade is important - or Teleport out.
Armour stacking leaves you open to ability damage, so be prepared for 2v1 encounters - pull back the moment you're outnumbered as you simply won't have the sustainability. I recommend the 50gold Totem as it increases your sight range enough to make getting away easier as you can see your opponent coming sooner.
The last thing I can recommend is simply being careful - Minion LEs are weak without their minions, and excell at pester tactics like a Spit UB, so you need to remove their minions first unless you outnumber him - then simply unload on the Minion LE and bring him down ASAP.

October 19, 2009 7:56:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Honestly, I think that the best counter to minion erebus is... Assassin Erebus! Mass charm deals with troops, you can match batswarm to batswarm, and generally have better mono e mono gear.

October 19, 2009 8:59:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Minion LE is fairly easy to counter,

Zechnophobe, your tips might be okay, but only against a amateur Minion Erebus.

I know what I'm talking about as I've seen that every top player in the ESL 1vs1 ladder (no favs -> no  Horn!) started to lose against Minion Erebus when not taking Minion Erebus themselves. This ladder died the moment Minion Erebus became popular because only such players won anymore. Virtually every 1vs1 I try to join in the custom games nowadays has an enemy Erebus.

 

because you can kill his DPS

... as I've already stated, this does not hurt a Minion Erebus very much because

even if you kill his whole army, he'll have his whole army back almost instantly by just standing near to the reinforcement waves

October 19, 2009 9:13:42 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

If you really really really want to kill minions I suggest this:

  • Ooze beast
  • revenge armor
  • natures rekoning
  • hp stack the rest of your item slots
  • take blood of the fallen

This is my ultimate minion counter build

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