What do you think?

By on October 15, 2009 8:48:06 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

gkrit

Join Date 01/2009
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TB's circle of fire - 1500 dot dmg over 10 secs. Stays where users casts it. This is an easy skill to avoid since you can quickly get out of its area of effect. Can be used on structures. Good minion farm. 0.8 sec cast time. Predictable and made at TB's position.

UB's Spit - 1500 dot dmg over 10 secs. 1500 dmg guaranteed! unless, theres a sedna or oak or symbol of purity to remove it. Can be used on structures. Not good minion farm (but ooze and plague is for that, much more effective that circle of fire).
0.3 secs cast time. Fairly good range.

 

balanced or unbalanced? fair or unfair? you decide...

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October 15, 2009 8:51:31 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

balanced

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October 15, 2009 9:34:27 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i for one think its not lol.

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October 15, 2009 9:51:28 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Balanced if you have a TB who knows what he is doing. Everyone knows how to spit.

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October 15, 2009 9:58:37 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I think there's not much sense in comparing single abilities side-by-side when trying to determine balance.  Especially if you're going to compare one ability by itself against the entire package that goes with the other.

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October 15, 2009 10:32:51 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Don't forget circle has aoe and can't be debuffed (with heal 3). But I still think spit is better.

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October 15, 2009 11:50:21 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Very different skills.  Spit is the UB's method of saying "Hey, you don't want to come up close?  Take this!"  The circle of fire is more of "Come on, contest me at this flag, I dare you" or "I'm going to burn down two towers and a creep wave."  Sure, it may be easy to avoid, but not in larger confrontations.

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October 15, 2009 2:00:25 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

All depends on where you are coming form. Compare Fireball to Spit instead, as they are both much similar nukes.

Fireball: Greater Range, Deals 1.94 damage per mana spent. 1050 damage every 7 seconds. 1 second cast time

Spit: Less Range than fireball, deals 1.73 damage per mana, assuming no counter effect. .3 second cast time

As most TB players know, fireball is an amazingly good harassment tool, since you can Just.Keep.Casting.It. Spit is nice for a while, but a good UB drives people off with ooze, not spit (late game, at level 10 where we are talking about). Spit is just there so Beast doesn't always have to run around trying to get to melee.

 

Another point to consider: Tb has a ranged attack, UB doesn't.

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October 15, 2009 9:29:26 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

and circle of fire at max gives 200% (just a guess) mana regen while tb is in it what does spit do for UB?

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October 16, 2009 3:11:29 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

ubs spit at end adds more dps.

i compared those 2 skills coz they r the most similar when dishing out dmg by that i mean they are both DoT and do their dmg over 10 secs. The reason why i think its unfair, is that u have to wait for someone to come in range with tb for them to be affected by circle of fire, whereas a ub can spit then just run away (good for flee'ers also, but you may say this about fireball however im not talking about fireball atm).

im not complaing that Spit is too strong, coz i think its fine the way it is, but i think circle of fire is a tad too weak for how it works.
IMO, I think circle of fire should dish out 1800 dmg over 10 secs.

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October 16, 2009 5:10:52 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ,
 

TB's circle of fire - 1500 dot dmg over 10 secs. Stays where users casts it. This is an easy skill to avoid since you can quickly get out of its area of effect. Can be used on structures. Good minion farm. 0.8 sec cast time. Predictable and made at TB's position.

UB's Spit - 1500 dot dmg over 10 secs. 1500 dmg guaranteed! unless, theres a sedna or oak or symbol of purity to remove it. Can be used on structures. Not good minion farm (but ooze and plague is for that, much more effective that circle of fire).
0.3 secs cast time. Fairly good range.

 

balanced or unbalanced? fair or unfair? you decide...

I'm not sure why you'd compare both of these.  Comparing them, obviously spit has the advantage.  Tb can instant cast a fireball at that level for 1050 +.  So, Tb gets the nuking advantage.  If you want to get specific and make a more fair comparison, look at maxed Ooze + spit and maxed fireball + circle. 

I personally think its fair because there are 2 different play styles involved. 

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October 16, 2009 6:51:06 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

UB's Spit - 1500 dot dmg over 10 secs. 1500 dmg guaranteed! unless, theres a sedna or oak or symbol of purity to remove it. Can be used on structures. Not good minion farm (but ooze and plague is for that, much more effective that circle of fire).
0.3 secs cast time. Fairly good range.

 

TBs Fireball - 1050 dmg after 1.5 sec casttime, medium cooldown, really good damage for mana, no way to avoid but interupt.

 

Regulus Snipe - 1000 dmg after 3 sec cast, long range, long cooldown , no way to avoid but interupt.

 

Looks quite ballanced imo.

 

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October 16, 2009 7:57:10 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Maccilia,
and circle of fire at max gives 200% (just a guess) mana regen while tb is in it what does spit do for UB?

Unless something's changed recently, the bonus at the end of the CoF tree is passive.  Once you take the skill, it's always on whether you're in a circle or not.

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October 16, 2009 8:23:43 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I don't see why you'd ever compare a single target DoT to an area denial skill. Nevermind that the dot can easily be removed by 3 of the 8 demigods in the game. The skills aren't used the same.

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October 16, 2009 9:55:56 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ,
 

TB's circle of fire - 1500 dot dmg over 10 secs. Stays where users casts it. This is an easy skill to avoid since you can quickly get out of its area of effect. Can be used on structures. Good minion farm. 0.8 sec cast time. Predictable and made at TB's position.

UB's Spit - 1500 dot dmg over 10 secs. 1500 dmg guaranteed! unless, theres a sedna or oak or symbol of purity to remove it. Can be used on structures. Not good minion farm (but ooze and plague is for that, much more effective that circle of fire).
0.3 secs cast time. Fairly good range.

 

balanced or unbalanced? fair or unfair? you decide...

I think anyone who ignores the mana costs and AoE potential of powers is a friggin Newbie.

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October 16, 2009 10:22:59 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

well ... if you put a ub and tb in a 1v1 situation, of course UB is gonna win and to a certain extent thats the way it should be. But TB should at least have a fair chance at altering that outcome.

Say they are both lvl 20 and you have a full fire build (circle of fire, fireball, firenova, fire aura) against an ooze/spit/dps UB build.
And the situation is (just for arguments sake)...

- neither character flees, and they are in melee range
- no stat upgrade (max health/regen etc) equips etc.
- ignoring regenerative effects
- no consumables
- no team mates (seeing that its a 1v1)
- calculating dmg dealt within a 10 sec time frame

TB - 3500 Health
- uses 1 circle of fire, 1 fire nova then 1 fireball and 5-7 auto attacks (Damage, 299 - 331 (314.8)).

Total dmg output (roughly) =  1500 + 800 + 1050 + 1884 = 5734 dmg (added 500 dmg for ooze health loss) over 10 secs

UB - 4115 Health
- uses inner beast,  ooze, 1 spit/putrid flow and 8-9 auto attacks (Damage, 277 - 307 (291.5)).

Total dmg output (roughly) = 1400 + 2150 + 2473 = 6023 dmg over 10 secs

 

even with ooze dmg ub himself, UB still outputs more dmg to TB within the 10 secs and at a cost of only 950 mana, while TB uses nearly triple that amount of mana at 2715 mana cost which only leads to his loss anyway.

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October 16, 2009 10:32:16 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting gkrit,

Say they are both lvl 20 and you have a full fire build (circle of fire, fireball, firenova, fire aura) against an ooze/spit/dps UB build.
And the situation is (just for arguments sake)...

- neither character flees, and they are in melee range
- no stat upgrade (max health/regen etc) equips etc.
- ignoring regenerative effects
- no consumables
- no team mates (seeing that its a 1v1)
- calculating dmg dealt within a 10 sec time frame

I think you've gotten way off of your OP. You can take any 1v1 demigod and put them in the same scenario as above and guess what... one of them will always lose, every time. So what does this prove or have to do with your original question. If they were all perfectly balanced in your 'just for arguments sake' example, what would be the point of having 8 'different' demigods?

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October 16, 2009 11:00:42 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

you know you face a noob when he compares to skills of diferent heros/demigods what ever, that have totally different playstyle, weaks and strenghts.

sorry, but balance does not mean that you can pick up any two skills and they must have the same strength. balance means that to demigods are both the same value picking them up in your team. but this does not implie that they are eualy good no matter what combination with other demigods you have teamed up.

 

just one more of the worthless "balancing"-threads i already saw too much here.

 

edit: btw. tb attaks dmgs many targets at once. count this in your strategy and many other things! if you play tb as ub of course he seems weaker.

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October 16, 2009 4:42:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

As Celmare said, each Demigod is way too different to compare individual skills and arrive at a conclusion.  Any buffs or nerfs that Stardock should make should relate to clear imbalances, such as EB's old 900 damage bite.  If you try making skill comparisons such as in this thread, you're going to come up with strange (and wrong) conclusions.  Imagine how crappy Pounce would look if Rook had it instead of Sedna, or how OP Hammer Slam would be if Sedna had it.

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October 16, 2009 4:48:23 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think it has pretty good balance as you can use circle of fire on more than one building at a time and you can damage anything that walks through it. Spit is a one shot one target.

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October 16, 2009 4:59:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Sorry but spit has the advanate by alot and here is why:

Spit stacks(doesnt it?), and CoF does not.  If you try to cast one CoF while another is active they both go out after the first ones time is up...

Of cource I could be wrong about spit stacking, and they may have fixed the CoF timer issue.

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October 16, 2009 8:27:34 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting gkrit,
well ... if you put a ub and tb in a 1v1 situation,

 

I'll remember this the next time I play a 1v1 game.  Have you thought about doing the same comparision 2v2 with 2TBs on 1 side and 2UBs on the other?  Does this mean UB is underpowered in 2v2?

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October 16, 2009 9:32:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ChromeWeasel,

I think anyone who ignores the mana costs and AoE potential of powers is a friggin Newbie.

funny that, im not far behind you on win percentage.

Quoting CelMare,
you know you face a noob when he compares to skills of diferent heros/demigods what ever, that have totally different playstyle, weaks and strenghts.

and your saying im a noob when ive got a higher win percentage than you.

 

Quoting Guderian77,

I think you've gotten way off of your OP. You can take any 1v1 demigod and put them in the same scenario as above and guess what... one of them will always lose, every time. So what does this prove or have to do with your original question. If they were all perfectly balanced in your 'just for arguments sake' example, what would be the point of having 8 'different' demigods?

i change my direction of argument coz everyone was saying "you cant just compare 1 skill to another" which is true. But i didnt post it without taking into consideration other factors of gameplay (towers, minion farm etc). 

I think ppl saw something they didnt like and havent thought about it in depth like i have. I thought about this topic a lot, well before i even posted this thread.

So im not even gonna bother with this thread anymore coz i dont believe ppl are actually thinking about it before they post what they think (i could be wrong though).

You guys obviously dont see where im coming from.

 

 

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October 16, 2009 10:52:25 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting gkrit,

Quoting ChromeWeasel, reply 14
I think anyone who ignores the mana costs and AoE potential of powers is a friggin Newbie.
funny that, im not far behind you on win percentage.


Quoting CelMare, reply 17you know you face a noob when he compares to skills of diferent heros/demigods what ever, that have totally different playstyle, weaks and strenghts.


and your saying im a noob when ive got a higher win percentage than you.

 


Quoting Guderian77, reply 16
I think you've gotten way off of your OP. You can take any 1v1 demigod and put them in the same scenario as above and guess what... one of them will always lose, every time. So what does this prove or have to do with your original question. If they were all perfectly balanced in your 'just for arguments sake' example, what would be the point of having 8 'different' demigods?
i change my direction of argument coz everyone was saying "you cant just compare 1 skill to another" which is true. But i didnt post it without taking into consideration other factors of gameplay (towers, minion farm etc). 

I think ppl saw something they didnt like and havent thought about it in depth like i have. I thought about this topic a lot, well before i even posted this thread.

So im not even gonna bother with this thread anymore coz i dont believe ppl are actually thinking about it before they post what they think (i could be wrong though).

You guys obviously dont see where im coming from.

 

 

It is quite obvious you have not thought this out as much as you think you have. I am pretty sure most people know where you are coming from, now it is your turn to consider where we are coming from. There is so much that goes into thinking this. Even if it was a theoretical one on one, where there is nothing but TB and UB and they can only use Circle of Fire and Spit respectively, you still are not going to get a solid answer. Maybe the TB player can play better and micro better. I don't know. Even if they are about even skill-wise, the UB might happen to make more mistakes or is just plain unlucky.

But yes, a little over half of the time (and only that) UB with spit is going to destroy TB with Circle of Fire if you were to put them in the above mentioned theoretical statement. But no one cares. It is never going to be at that theoretical position.

Look, I don't know your intent, but from your responses I'm guessing you want a nerf. From my viewpoint, there is absolutely no need for a nerf.

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October 16, 2009 11:13:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

no nerf .... im happy with spit as it is .... im suggesting a slight dmg buff to circle of fire 1800 dmg over 10 secs instead of 1500.

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October 16, 2009 11:33:51 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Circle of Fire already punishes a team which fights on it enough. In a 2v2 and up just standing in the fire isn't usually a viable option, the CoF does what it's meant to do just fine, which is push back a team or punish them if they don't retreat.

 

As for total damage, what you're assuming is that UB and TB are both in range 100% of the time. If UB is going to deal damage with Ooze, he has to be in melee range. TB can lay down a CoF and then flee, he can throw fireballs from behind other DGs, while UB must generally enter and stay in melee range indefinitely.

 

If TB could defeat all melee characters from inside melee range, then what would be the point of playing melee characters? He is designed to lose that kind of fight. If you're really having trouble you should try getting an Orb of Defiance. Generally if you fireball as the enemy approaches you can lay down a CoF before they get in stun range. Once they spit, activate the Orb and they must either run and get fireballed in the back or cook in your CoF.

Regardless, you're not going to win in a slugfest and you shouldn't. If you're going to buff TB it should come in the form of allowing him to autoattack on the run and making it possible for him to actually cast something when fighting a team with multiple interrupts on it.

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