A question, and a list of features that could of prevented me from quitting.

By on September 30, 2009 3:00:11 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

masterofping

Join Date 11/2008
0

I played demigod addictively for about 3 months after it shipped. Good premise, fun multiplayer, alas few problems at beginning.

My question is, how many of the players who prebought the game are still around? The clan I was apart of pretty much have all quit, and think the game is dead. I don't care if you still have new players, etc, how many actually stay?

Anyways, so I quit, and it's really simple why. For anyone wondering, I play HoN exclusively now, which is exactly Dota.  Now, barring game to game comparisons which I won't do, I don't care if Dota is a bad game or not in your opinion, HoN has features that had they been in Demigod within the last few months I wouldn't of quit. So to make this post short, here's a list!

-Reconnection (oh I dcced, my game crashed, and I can come back!)

-PSR. HoN has a system in the UI that shows a number that trys to compute an overall persons skill. It works like Chess ratings where if you win against an equal team ur PSR goes up, if it doesn't it goes down.  Basically you can tell if a game is a pub stomp simply by a % that is shown over each team (which is computed by adding up a teams total PSR).  If one side shows 90% chance to win, and the other side shows 10%, you know you shouldn't waste your time with this specific game.  They also have an autobalance button to make it so each side is as equal as can be done with such a simple system. Systems not perfect but it helps immensely for a solo player.

-Built in voice chat.

-Clans, nuff said.

-Messaging system + buddy list, all in game simply by pressing f6,  you can see who is online, and get an im box by double clicking on someones name.  When I was using the impulse UI, I'm sorry but it made me puke with its flaws.  HoN's UI shows you when your buddy/clans join a game, and allow you to follow them to any game. It's also amazingly simple yet effective. Whereas Impulse's UI was simple and ineffective.

-Game browser. You can search games by name, map, mode, tier (Noobs/Noobs Allowed/ Pros only). Oh yeh, they have tiers, so you can make your game say pros only, or noobs only. Tiers are governed I believe by numbers of games.

-In game stats. You can see a persons stats simply by right clicking them. You can see if they are leaver, or if they are good or bad.

-Reconnection. Oh I already said this, but seriously!

Lastly, you guys promised the new demigods a month ago. This is beyond sad that its not done yet.  Your own fault trying to make a game look so good, that adding new heroes takes months and months of time to create. The type of genre demigod exists in, is more dependant on changing gameplay than good looks. New heroes create new gameplay, lack of new heroes creates stagnant gameplay which imo, ultimately makes anyone who enjoyed it quit. 8 different heroes in a 5v5 game is pathetic.

I really enjoyed Demigod, I'm really sad that the developer allowed it to stagnate and ultimately cause me to quit. (At least until the new demigods come out)

 

PS. Add more unique items. Dota/HoN has a very unique plethora of items, which adds to gameplay. I find the item set in demigod to be ultimately just a set of +dmg/+hp/+armor/+mana regen/+speed that is pretty boring. Favor items are about all that is cool.

 

 

 

 

 

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September 30, 2009 3:42:30 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

k.

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September 30, 2009 3:49:26 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Agree strongly on the reconnection thing.  It's the sort of feature that makes sense to add in any game of this genre where unintentional dc's can be such a painful issue to deal with.  Don't really know why it wasn't included.

As for other suggestions, they're coming with time.  This game isn't for the impatient, I play it still with my friends who've bought it on my recommendation, but I'm slowly seeing myself play HoN more also... Looking forward to seeing some of these features come out in DG though!

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September 30, 2009 3:55:04 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The reason for the lack of the ability to reconnect has been explained in multiple threads already. It simply isn't viable given Demigods connection system, and Demigod isn't the first game not to include it.

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September 30, 2009 4:08:07 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Not everyone has been in touch with this forum as comprehensively as you ZehDon.

It isn't the first game no, but HoN and LoL both have it and yes, its a pertinent comparison.  If connection system is to blame I'd go so far as to say that by comparison this points out an inferiority, combined with the simspeed based game lag.  

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September 30, 2009 4:15:17 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Is the connection system not the same as Supcoms, in Supcoms the connectivity can recover from one player losing internet connection and reconnecting then the game continues as normal.

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September 30, 2009 4:37:47 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting RemV,
Not everyone has been in touch with this forum as comprehensively as you ZehDon.

Not to be rude, but if you're quitting a non-subscription based retail game outside of the refund window then I would assume you'd be more than in touch with the game and it's systems as you're essentially wasting the cost of the game by 'quitting'; your motivations for doing so must stem from a deeper understand of the game than I possess because I'm not quitting.

Quoting RemV,
It isn't the first game no, but HoN and LoL both have it and yes, its a pertinent comparison.  If connection system is to blame I'd go so far as to say that by comparison this points out an inferiority, combined with the simspeed based game lag.

The inferiority in question is a side effect of the synched effect Demigod employs based on it's P2P connection system. This removes 3rd party cheating, or hax, from the game entirely and without exception. Demigods connection system is basically flawless at this point from my experience - the only reason you're dropping is from experiencing a desynch crash - in which case you wouldn't have been able to reconnect anyway as everyone else dropped as well - or because something is wrong on your end.

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September 30, 2009 5:01:58 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I don't have problems sustaining connections don't think the OP mentioned any either, I agree it's stable in that regard.  But.. can't say I've noticed any real cheating or hax issues with DoTA, and not sure p2p is necessary to keep a system completely free of it either.  

This game can't handle 5v5 and for many people barely 4v4 whereas the others do flawlessly, an extension of one persons connection being able to decimate the gameplay for everybody else.  This is the other inferiority I was referring to. When other games have systems that overcome these issues with seemingly no drawbacks of their own, I fail to see any real benefit demigods system offers over them. 

Don't know exactly where you were going with the 'not to be rude' comment, I was simply referring to your comment that 'no reconnects based on the connection system has been mentioned in many threads' (can't quote directly in google chrome >.<).  I have considered myself a relatively frequent reader of these forums for the last couple of months and I've never seen this mentioned in any threads myself.  I'm sure it's been missed by many.

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September 30, 2009 5:06:29 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
poor zehdon cant take ppl who quit this game because of its flaws.
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September 30, 2009 5:19:14 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting RemV,
This game can't handle 5v5 and for many people barely 4v4 whereas the others do flawlessly, an extension of one persons connection being able to decimate the gameplay for everybody else.

I'm ultimately confused by this line; Demigod handles them perfectly - it's players Upload speeds that becomes the issue. Is this what you meant?

Quoting RemV,
I don't have problems sustaining connections don't think the OP mentioned any either, I agree it's stable in that regard.  But.. can't say I've noticed any real cheating or hax issues with DoTA, and not sure p2p is necessary to keep a system completely free of it either.

This is a point I agree with; P2P is basically the connection method chosen by Gas Powered Games for the SupCom Engine, which Demigod uses - the benefit is it always works, and is not dependant on servers.
Unreal Tournament 3, which I recently purchased off of Steam, has around 4 servers with acceptable pings for Australian gamers, down from an original 55. In a few years time that will most certainly decrease to none and the game will no longer be able to be played except over LAN. This will never be an issue with Demigod.
The actual necessity of P2P is questionable in Demigod and I absolutely agree with this point - especially since if it were client/server it wouldn't have had a disasterous launch. As Frogboy has said, he would prefer if Demigod had of been client/server and they've learnt from that. Hindsight is 20/20.

Now, is P2P the ideal candidate for Demigod? No. Will mentioning this obvious fact do anything? No. The cost of changing the game's design from P2P to Client/Server would stretch into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. And that isn't an exaggeration. The point I'm attempting to make is Demigod has what it has - accept this. If you're unhappy, move on. There won't be a patch that dramatically overhauls the entire system to make the game fun for people who don't currently find it fun. It's as simple as that.

Quoting StAcK3D_ActR,
poor zehdon cant take ppl who quit this game because of its flaws.

Not at all Stacked I get tired of the "Account Cancelled" posts which read as follows

[State you're a massive fan of Demigod. Best game in a long time]
[State that Demigod is not HoN, LoL or DotA]
[List the differences]
[Explain that if Demigod was HoN, LoL or DotA then the players who enjoy HoN, LoL or DotA would play Demigod more]
[Fail to explain that Demigod draws a different crowd than the other games due to it's gameplay]
[State that the Developers need to make Demgiod more like HoN, LoL or DotA or Demigod is going to fail financally]
[State that you're quitting Demigod .. depsite it being a free to play retail game that you don't quit, you uninstall]

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September 30, 2009 5:45:02 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Blaming an entire communities connections is a poor excuse though.  The games engine can handle as many players as it wants on paper but if it doesn't work in reality it doesn't mean crap.  This is very much the case with 5v5 in this game and whilst I can't draw figures 4v4 apparently too, that can't be argued.  Yeah they aren't going to bring out a patch that magically fixes this, but I'd say this should have never been an issue regardless.  

Yep hindsight is 20/20, and mentioning p2p isn't the right candidate isnt going to fix anything, but... I've read someone here state that this uses a similar if not the same connection model as supcom, and yet that game does not let one persons connection all but debilitate the gameplay.  True/false?  I'd be interested to know.  If they could stop one persons computer or connection killing a game for everyone regardless of connection method... I'd pay for that goddamn patch as soon as it came out regardless of whether I believe I should have had to or not.

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September 30, 2009 5:58:19 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting RemV,

Yep hindsight is 20/20, and mentioning p2p isn't the right candidate isnt going to fix anything, but... I've read someone here state that this uses a similar if not the same connection model as supcom, and yet that game does not let one persons connection all but debilitate the gameplay.  True/false?  I'd be interested to know.  If they could stop one persons computer or connection killing a game for everyone regardless of connection method... I'd pay for that goddamn patch as soon as it came out regardless of whether I believe I should have had to or not.

 

That is false actually if someones upload/download/stability is fluctuating in Supcoms it does infact effect alls gameplay. That said in Supcoms the players choose when to kick players when they lose connectivity, for some reason that functionality is not included in Demigod. Currently in Demigod once connectivity is lost past 10/20seconds the offending player is automatically kicked. In Supcoms an unwritten rule is adopted for kicking players that being if they lose connectivity for more than a mintue then everyone kicks the player that is having connectivity issues.

When adopting the Supcoms technology could it not of beenr esearched how the community utilise it? Can it not be adopted now? Would it not be better to add the functionality to kick players and then have the game kick them after about a minute? Currently the timer is too short and often does not allow the opportunity to recover, this ruins the game and wastes a lot of peoples time.

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September 30, 2009 6:04:38 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Well thanks for clearing that up for me, I was interested in knowing if that was indeed the case or not!

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September 30, 2009 6:24:53 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ZehDon,


[Fail to explain that Demigod draws a different crowd than the other games due to it's gameplay]

[sarcasm]

Yes, because that different crowd playing Demigod certainly would not enjoy any of the features listed by the OP.

[/sarcasm]

 

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September 30, 2009 7:03:43 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

"could have" not "could of"

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September 30, 2009 7:12:40 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

to answer the question.

i'm 1.

have to say i was a bit sad once beta was over cos a whole slew of wingers and gas bags flooded the game and forums. to make things worse some of them were actually better at the agme too!

since the release/beta's of HoN and LoL i'm starting to have more of the fun type of games again. that or i've grown a second sense for not playing against... people i don't wish to play against.

will i be staying, yes, and i'll see you again once the new DG's are out *sigh*

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September 30, 2009 8:15:13 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

1) I never did have many 5v5s in demigod, ultimately someone would crash or be kicked out due to lag, and the game would be stupid. Having to stick to 3v3s just because the game doesn't seem to able to handle 5v5s with the choice in network code is also another big deal why people probably quit. HoN hosts all games on their own servers, which is a much better solution.

2) Almost all my disconnection issues were _crashes_ with Demigod, reconnection is necessary just because the code in Demigod is buggy.

3)

"[List the differences]
[Explain that if Demigod was HoN, LoL or DotA then the players who enjoy HoN, LoL or DotA would play Demigod more]"

This is a blatant troll. My comments were directed at gameplay indepedent features. So go troll elsewhere.

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September 30, 2009 8:53:02 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

-Reconnection (oh I dcced, my game crashed, and I can come back!)

-PSR. HoN has a system in the UI that shows a number that trys to compute an overall persons skill. It works like Chess ratings where if you win against an equal team ur PSR goes up, if it doesn't it goes down. Basically you can tell if a game is a pub stomp simply by a % that is shown over each team (which is computed by adding up a teams total PSR). If one side shows 90% chance to win, and the other side shows 10%, you know you shouldn't waste your time with this specific game. They also have an autobalance button to make it so each side is as equal as can be done with such a simple system. Systems not perfect but it helps immensely for a solo player.

-Built in voice chat.

-Clans, nuff said.

-Messaging system + buddy list, all in game simply by pressing f6, you can see who is online, and get an im box by double clicking on someones name. When I was using the impulse UI, I'm sorry but it made me puke with its flaws. HoN's UI shows you when your buddy/clans join a game, and allow you to follow them to any game. It's also amazingly simple yet effective. Whereas Impulse's UI was simple and ineffective.

-Game browser. You can search games by name, map, mode, tier (Noobs/Noobs Allowed/ Pros only). Oh yeh, they have tiers, so you can make your game say pros only, or noobs only. Tiers are governed I believe by numbers of games.

-In game stats. You can see a persons stats simply by right clicking them. You can see if they are leaver, or if they are good or bad.

-Reconnection. Oh I already said this, but seriously!

Yes, yes, Demigod would benefit from all these things, but most of them have nothing to do with the gameplay itself, in which Demigod definitely excels and is indeed quite awesome.  I've not played Dota, LoL, or HoN, but to be honest I think one of the things Demigod has got going for itself is that it stands out from those funny looking games.  So you go enjoy your HoN, and I'll continue my Demigod addiction here, thank you very much.  Just quit your whining.

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September 30, 2009 10:57:18 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Demigod have his biggest Problem in there connection system. It's bad bad bad.  and this is the truth!

Demigod need a completly neew connection system.  All of the other games (LoL =League of Legends or HoN = Heroes of Newerth) have defintly better connection systems.  And this is the only thing why i play it in the actual beta status.

 

I think Demigod is the better game, more inovative, more tactical and be a better chance to become a turn back in game flow(bwetter balancing).

So, please Stardock and GPG make a good new connection system and many players must not play HoN or LoL anymore 

 

 

greetings

Shalom_Don

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September 30, 2009 11:13:39 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

So, please Stardock and GPG make a good new connection system

 

Let's be honest here.  That is NOT going to happen.  The game is what it is and rewriting the netcode is a significant undertaking that makes zero business sense.  You'd be better off hoping that Demigod 2 has a better connection system but don't hold your breath on that as SD has indicated they plan to support Demigod for the long haul.

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September 30, 2009 11:17:19 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Whatever.

I for one am having more fun than ever.

Something that makes me wonder... if you have decided to quit a game, why come back and bother the rest of us about it?  You have some need for others to know you've quit?  All seems sort of... insincere.  If you've decided to quit, fine, we all have our personal tastes.  However, there's no reason to come back and try to cast a shadow over the game for those of us who are still having a good time.

 

 

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September 30, 2009 11:22:47 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Butterchin,
However, there's no reason to come back and try to cast a shadow over the game for those of us who are still having a good time.
 

I agree, constructive feedback is overrated.

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September 30, 2009 11:24:44 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I too enjoy the wines of france.....

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September 30, 2009 12:04:18 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I played the HoN beta too, but not for long because the game is just boring, it might have some nice features that demigod doesnt have, but it doesnt matter because its soooooo damn boring.

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September 30, 2009 12:54:42 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Rydier:

A post which contains elements like "This is beyond sad" and "Your own fault" is not constructive criticism.  The tone makes it clear what the true intent is.  This is someone who has an axe to grind, combined with a nice propaganda piece for another game.

Your sarcastic stab, attempting to state that my post somehow ignores the true merits of the OP's post, is neither persuasive nor accurate.

 

 

 

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September 30, 2009 1:40:53 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I neither want you guys to play hon, nor care. Nor is it an axe to grind. I came back here after months of playing and said what it is that HoN has for a Battle Arena type game (which demigod is a part of the genre), that are necessary features for me to want to play Demigod. Demigod is a multiplayer game that is lacking multiplayer features, features I listed, features which without make me not want to play? I stated I wasn't speaking of Demigods gameplay, nor HoN's, so I don't know how anyone is talking about that.

 

Stop trolling my post if you don't like the fact that I use "this is beyond sad".

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