New overlays and premades – TAKE THAT YOU PREMADE JERKS!

A pacov rant

By on September 29, 2009 10:52:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

pacov

Join Date 02/2008
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This has been talked about in other places, but I wanted to add my two cents as it’s an issue that will continue to impact the community for some time.  If you have the time to read this and an open mind, please humor me by reading this post. 

 

1st – we're getting some new overlay features sometime in the next week or so (http://forums.demigodthegame.com/365437).  If things work as advertised, we’ll see some additional information in game including games started/completed, won/lost, and familiarity with other players.  Brad’s been pretty clear that indentifying players that have played together before is important to him (Frogboy:  “I just got stomped by one too many premades”) and I’d wager, his opinion is pretty similar to new players and MANY puggers. 

 

There’s a phrase I keep hearing over and over and it’s a simple one:  premades are fine IF.  IF they put PREMADE in their title, IF they only play other premades, IF they will break up their premade to make a more balanced game.  Here are some loose definitions of premade and pug so we are all a little closer to being on the same page: 

 

Premade – a team that is made in advance.  Some people go to extremes and call it a premade if you’ve simply played a few games with a set group of people.  Others only consider a premade a team that typically plays together.  Some would even call you a premade if you and 1 buddy play a 4v4 on the same team.  It's a term that is used in Demigod because apparently a special word is needed to describe a team in a team based game.  If you play with the same group of people, you are not a team, you are a premade.    

 

PUG – Individuals who play pick up games or games where they don’t have a set team.  There are degrees with this as well.  Some would indicate you are NOT a pugger if you play several games with an individual on the same team.  Most consider you a Pugger AS LONG AS you are not in a premade. 

 

The definitions don't really matter much in the end, as premades are generalized and then put in the box of premades are fine IF.  We don't hear too much along the lines of pugger's are fine IF.  They are just fine and need someone to make sure they aren't abused by premades.  And if they get a chance to pass some abuse onto premades, then well... they had it coming for all the PUG stomps (I'm starting the puggers are fine IF list tonight btw). 

 

The biggest complaint people seem to have about premades are PUG stomps.  The definition varies on PUG stomps as well.  Some would call it a PUG stomp if the teams were even slightly imbalanced.  In the extreme (what almost always occurs) they consider any premade game against Pugs imbalanced (unless they win).  The other extreme of PUG STOMPS is if the premade team maliciously fights only new players to the game.   PUG stomps are pretty much a negative term regardless of your meaning, which makes it is easier to vilify premades if they do anything other than premade vs premade games (premades are fine IF). 

 

To paint a clear picture of how puggers intentionally grief premade teams (because its justified, of course, because premades are fine IF BLANK.  Go against their rules and it's ok for them to act like a jerk), see the following list. 

 

Exciting ways to grief premades

·         Join their game.  Wait until its full.  In chat, write, fing premade and leave (see picks of dielan and chemdude8 doing their version of this tonight 9/29/2009 - keeping the world safe for new players)

·         If you start losing a game or even die once, ask "premade?" in chat (as in the only possibility YOU could have been killed was if you were up against a premade).

·         Join a lobby that's full.  Ask the premade to rebalance the game because you just showed up. 

·         Accuse every premade team you know of PUG stomping.  Don't look into it at all as there is no need.   (http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&tab=popular&show=details&id=96864 - see the comments for another example of someone doing the same thing)

·         You've been victimized by every premade that ever existed - make sure they know it.  FIND A WAY!

 

And last, for those of you not in a premade, I doubt you understand this all that well, so I'll explain the other side of things that you apparently don't see or don't care to see.  It's the part that you don't get that enables you to act like a complete jerk and try to ruin other people's experience. 

 

People in a premade play together because they like playing together.  You can often have more competitive games by using voice chat (a feature that obviously should be in the game IMO) and by playing together often with the same group of people.  I am a great individual player, but am substantially better by playing with people I know because I can count on a shield or a heal or a stun at the right time.  Good players will do that for you sometimes.  A good premade will do that for you most of the time.  It's not cheating.  Its playing the game the way it's actually MEANT to played (a team playing a team game).  My premade has over 10 people in it.  We all play together from time to time.  I've played with some over 100 games and some 3-5 games.  I try to play a little every night when I can. 

 

I accept challenges from other premades and search when out of game for premades to play against.  When there is not a premade available, I do not wait around 30 minutes for a game.  I host a game or someone in my premade hosts a game.  I have hosted premade specific games and if no one joins after 5 minutes, host a game that is less descriptive so more people might join.  You can call that deceitful, but I call it trying to get a game going because I enjoy playing demigod. 

 

Why don't you try hosting a 5v5 premade only lobby and let me know how long it takes to fill up for you?  Just wait it out.   What's that?  10 minutes have gone by and your lobby is completely empty?  Why not try a 4v4 premade and tell one of your buds to take a hike?  Oh, you tried that too and your lobby is still empty?  You'd rather just get a game going instead of playing the exciting lobby game?  Well, sorry, you're a jerk.  You should wait it out.  Especially if you want to play with your friends.  That's only ok if you don't play with your friends all of the time. 

 

Anyway, I also often break off my from my premade just to do PUG only games and even then I often have people jump in and accuse whoever joined my team of being a premade.  Which often causes whoever is in my lobby to leave. 

 

So, that's all I have to say about this for a whole 5 minutes.  You may have a problem with premades but I think you should take a break from busting their chops.  Now.   Consider going after people that actually deserve grief.  Belier and Apika are still around exploiting the shite out of the sytem.  Our ladder rank #1 guy still playing in Pantheon games against AI only.  And I still play on a team and Pug from time to time.  Get your priorites right at least. 

 

And now for a few of the people who have righted wrongs today by busting up games I've been in that were not labeled to their specifications, thereby justifying their poor behavior FTW! 

 

 

Waiting for about 4 minutes after Dielan joined, called premade when the lobby was full and immediately quit. 

 

 

 

 

We had a game up, people joined, chemdude joined, he did his premade cheer and successfully emptied our full lobby.  So, we got to wait an additional 10 minutes for it to fill back up. 

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CallTheVoid
September 30, 2009 2:07:20 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks for responding, chemdude.  I figured out your thought process as you were thinking "outloud" in the team chat.  I'm not entirely sure what the point is you are alluding to with this post though (honestly).  I appreciate that you actually did check stats and I agree that everyone should. 

And you know what - I apologize for dragging you into this.  You were simply the 2nd person tonight to jump into one my games, call out premade, and leave, resulting in me waiting longer to get a game in.  My simple logic is, I check stats, I see a game I don't want to play in, I leave.  And to go even further, I don't much appreciate the way Dielan handled things (as shown in the OP), but I'm not horribly pissed with him either (was at the time).  It's simply my point of view that if you have a problem with the game YOU joined, then leave.  IMO - trying to kill a game you don't want to play in is rude and juvenile.  The whole thing with premades is this:  when I'm in a premade v a pug, I often pick characters that I have no business playing as.  In short, yes, you are fighting a premade, but you are fighting a medicore premade.  Stats don't tell you this, but its the reality of the situation.  Anyway - without going any further, apologies from me.

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September 30, 2009 2:10:48 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting generalkazar,
I said this in frogboy's post and I will say it here too. There are not enough people playing demigod, so alienating a whole group of people that probably adds up to over 50% of the player base is not good for the game. This feature will probably be the final nail on the Demigod coffin, and it saddens me.

I agree that alienating premades = bad idea, but we'll see.  I don't think this will be the nail on Dgs coffin.  She's got some life left in her yet. 

Forget FTW or FTL, I'm FTG: For the gaming. win or lose I don't give a shit, just a good challenge is what I'm in for.

Well said, Lukas.  We play for some fun!  A good challenge can be provided. 

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September 30, 2009 2:42:10 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting pacov,
I agree that alienating premades = bad idea, but we'll see.  I don't think this will be the nail on Dgs coffin.  She's got some life left in her yet. 

Well if you call twitching life

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September 30, 2009 2:59:58 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Yes so all in all i guess i really am the most feared Demigoder in AUS, what a shame the game let me down time and time and time and time and time again and now, im ownin on LoL!!! And as for premades, i very rarely premade, i vs whoever comes my way, and if u look at my scores almost 8/10 games i loose i either have the highest mofo score OR some1 on my team d.c.

Sometimes i think i should premade cause im soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sick on bein stuck on team noobie when i out score every1, even the winning team. And as for me and Insom 'pre-made' team, we never get the fuckn do it casue of all u damn CRY BABYS, anyways enough demigod, time  2 LoL!!!!!!

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September 30, 2009 3:35:08 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

"Why don't you guys split up your team?" QQ

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/984322/player/18875/

More in house games:

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/994147/player/18875/

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/979539/player/18875/

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/974795/player/18875/

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/946619/player/18875/

Now, I realize almost all of those games are losses for me which will probably result in you guys pot-shotting me and saying how I'm really a bad player and my record is all because of pug-stomping, blah-blah. Maybe I am bad, you never know? But it's really irrelevant because I'm pointing out that I DO play in-house and I DO split up teams. And if you notice, pacov is in those games, so yeah, defends him too.

--

@Lukas...

You do realize you've played with me 3v3 while I'm premade with the third person, right? Several times in fact. I frequently only 'premake' with 1 other person (this last week or so exempt).

And you were on my team, and we won (well, except once...). I don't think you were complaining then?

--

@Bolange:

Remember that horrid game on Prison that was the most boring game of Demigod ever? I had played with Jotunn one tim(maybe twice? Maybe.) before, and he invited me to play with him. Was that a 'secret' premade? Esp since I was playing Queen of all people.

If I was a 'competitive' premade team I would never play with a pug friend who plays TB: (another example of a loss because, you know what, I don't really care how shitty of a player you think I am. I really don't think I'm in the top 20 as a player, and my prior ranking before expierence reset (145) was probably much more accurate):

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/992206/player/18875/

We would always have LE + Sed + (Oak or UB). Every game. I would never even think about screwing around with a different team. Because, you know, all I like to do is pug-stomp.

--

"hiding" premade:

I never do, and I have several posts that mark me as CLEARLY a person who plays on a team alot. It has gotten to the point where if I don't have anyone I know in the slightest online I'll host games that say "not premade". That's not a 'NO premade', but "I, abuggeredhedgie, am not premade and will take whoever joins my team and not kick them".

--

"My premade has over 10 people in it."

Not all on. Right now there are 5. I don't know two of them at all, and one of the three is playing a game with someone else. The other person is waiting for me to finish so we can do some 3v3 with a random person (maybe 2v2, we will see). Though we have a fair amount of people on, it's rarely more than 4 or 5 'active' players at any given time and since I pug alot...

--

the_hunger:

I kick on request, and I don't kick noobs/poor-players on my team, even when pug players tell me to:

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/989132/player/18875

--

Bottom line:

I pugged, I found some friends, I host a lot of games, people liked to play with me, my name got out, people IM me whenever we are online, we play together with text, I get invited to a 'clan', I play most premade, learn my team, start playing more and more premade -on- premade games, lose some, learn a lot, continue to have fun.

That's how it should be, for everyone. The easiest way to get your name out is to host a lot of 'no premade' games, and then play well enough people want to BE a premade with you.

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September 30, 2009 3:44:22 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The point pacov makes about hosting is bang on the money, if you do not like the game presented to you when you join, leave. The Custom game scene has become an unholy mess of stat checking, everyone does it and there are some pretty dishonest hosts out there just waiting to stack in there own favour. As it stands the only real option on the custom games is to spend a bit of time looking for a game that will be balanced in the manner that you like, or to host your own game and moderate it as such. Much as it is annoying waiting for a game with your set of mates, I would imagine it is annoying continually kicking premades from your no premade titled game.

People are going to jump into the lobby and shout premade there is no way around it, much as you define the rules when you host the game, they have the right to say whatever they like in the lobby (at least until they are kicked.) The practice of screaming premade is pretty sad, the fact that your lobby emptied twice on the accusation of premade is worse. If the other people waiting to play you are so averse to premades why did they simply not check the stats for themselves rather than take someone elses wild accusation. I guarentee 2 of the three that left the game will of walked into another premade custom game next

I joined one of Frogboys games the other day with my mate and got kicked, "no premades" not even the option to respond, kicked. Well it is your functionality mate, may I suggest Pantheon if you do not want to face premades, or is the light/dark limitation too much, or simply the danger of getting stuck with AI to scary.

It cannot be avoided these days PC games that are successful and achieve longevity are those which build a community. Community unfortunatley will lead to what has been branded "PREMADESCUMWTFRAGEQUIT" in demigod. So until such time as Pantheon is fixed to accomidate unrestricted pugging (this includes hiding the connection info,) Puggers in  Custom games are just going to have to take some care if they want fair™ matches and take the time to check some stats.

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September 30, 2009 4:03:30 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Abuggeredhedgie, yes I do remember playing with U

 

U missed my point, I don't winge at losing either. I am simply saying that hosting a premade without telling the pugs will eventuate in your premade finding it harder to start a game.

my suggestion on splitting premade is for the better chance of getting a game off the ground, as Pacov mentioned having difficulty doing (BTW I think everyone experiences difficulty getting a game filled, premade makes it harder for the premade team).

So, I say thanks for the wins + karma if I knew how, and thanks for the thrashings too, I need them to make winning all that much tastier.

 

HOw do ya add karma to someone???? pardon my noobness.

 

Oh, and I never stat check while in lobby, due to I trust what people tell me (by asking "U noob?", or "U pro?"). Also possibility of looking like a dickhead when you time out due to alt tab crash.

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September 30, 2009 4:05:29 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

There is a thumbs up button below there post, click it.

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September 30, 2009 5:07:31 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

In most cases they are NOT premades. I agree that premades should state that in the title but in most cases where people are talking about premades they aren't.

Note that after this long time since relase there are many good players that due to many games against and with each other already know each other. some of them got friends. so of course they usually join a game that has been hosted by known player thus the probability that there players that know each other is very high.

but what do you understand under the word premade? i understand here that there are some players that have decided to stick together, that have a common tactic they talked about and usually are using some sort of voice communication (the latter is against non-premades mostly not necessary). now for those players that only know each other for being good players so they join each others matches none of these properties are given.

but of course a good players thinks as a teammember hence resulting often in action that seem for others like tactics that have been discussed during a voice comm. i was often called premade even if i didn't knew ANY of my teammates.

 

i never looked at stats when i join a game but i started to do so sicne some days ago. joining a game where i know most of my opponents as good palyers has forced me in the past to check my teammembers that i don't know. this because even if it says "NO NOOBS, VERY GOOD PAYLERS" or ">50% win/loss" there are still people joining with 3 wins and 50 losses. and when i know my opponents they are very good its no fun being raped due to players that are faaaaaaaar below us.

i never played premade and i only joined some times a friends game. but in 99% of the cases if i don't get in the known players team i don't leave or beg them to switch me in. but it fucks me pretty much up everytime i have the luck to get in a team with friends or known people, were after a time you know pretty much most of the players, i get called premade -.-

well, after a while you know them all (more or less) hence every match i make is premade?

 

really, i rarly see real premade teams. out of the custom games per hour there are maybe one or at most two premade teams if at all. most days i do not see any premade team but many teams being called as premade.

as soon as you use your brain to play as a team you are being called premade.

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September 30, 2009 6:16:43 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting CelMare,
joining a game where i know most of my opponents as good palyers has forced me in the past to check my teammembers that i don't know. this because even if it says "NO NOOBS, VERY GOOD PAYLERS" or ">50% win/loss" there are still people joining with 3 wins and 50 losses. and when i know my opponents they are very good its no fun being raped due to players that are faaaaaaaar below us.

This.

Would be nice if hosts actually checked stats and kicked inadequate players more frequently if they've labelled their game "Good players only" or something, instead of ensuring good players on their team (premade or not) and not caring about the other.

Leads to a better game for everyone.

But then again, as pacov has clearly stated, getting a game going is in most cases clearly a higher priority than getting a GOOD game going.

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September 30, 2009 6:26:41 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You can't blame anybody for stat checking, you'd be an idiot if you didn't. I'd never play vs 500+ ranked players with random noobs in my team, because it's almost certainly a loss. Being at a disadvantage from the start is stupid. If you look at the lobby, almost all games are 3/6 or 4/8... just waiting for some inexperienced players to join an get owned. The host will check the stats of his team, and kick them if he doesn't like what he sees. Once he finds his game has reasonable enough players, it's just a long wait for people to join. 95% of them will check the stats, see that the Light team is good and leave ("some will say premade"). Now if a good team joins, the host will check that and kick them if he thinks they are too good. Alot of hosts do this; they wont even start a game if they dont think they have the advantage. This is seriously flawed and needs to be fixed.

There has to be a way that the lobby shows the level of play of a listed game in advance.

I'll happily play with other good players vs other good players, but I certainly won't be on the side of the noob team, getting stomp, where I know our winning chance is like 0.01%.

 

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September 30, 2009 6:46:51 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I class premade as a team who are using a voice chat program to communicate.

There is no way in hell a group of randomers is able to beat a premade, even if skill levels are all equal, because the co-ordination advantage will destroy the PuG.

Premades are not normally such a big problem in games because THERE ARE ALWAYS LOTS OF OTHER TEAMS TO PLAY AGAINST.

Due to Demigod's low population, you can log on and there can be 0 other premades online at the same time, so all that is left  is for premades to play against randomers.

To be honest, I don't know how you can play any game without an "arranged team" automatch function with a premade and expect it to be a fair match.

Randomers are always going to resent playing against premades, and if the population of the game is too low to promote premade vs premade games, you aren't left with many options except pub-stomps.

It's a tough problem to fix.

If randomers stayed in Pantheon games and teams stayed in Custom Games, this would be a good way to prevent premade vs PuG, but unfortunately hardly anyone plays Pantheon these days..

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September 30, 2009 6:50:46 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Random teams would be nice...

8 players join and the matchup for teams is randomised.

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September 30, 2009 6:52:36 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Lukas_A_79,
Random teams would be nice...

8 players join and the matchup for teams is randomised.

Then people would complain about doubles ... -.-

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September 30, 2009 7:10:50 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ntropy,
You can't blame anybody for stat checking, you'd be an idiot if you didn't. I'd never play vs 500+ ranked players with random noobs in my team, because it's almost certainly a loss. Being at a disadvantage from the start is stupid. If you look at the lobby, almost all games are 3/6 or 4/8... just waiting for some inexperienced players to join an get owned. The host will check the stats of his team, and kick them if he doesn't like what he sees. Once he finds his game has reasonable enough players, it's just a long wait for people to join. 95% of them will check the stats, see that the Light team is good and leave ("some will say premade"). Now if a good team joins, the host will check that and kick them if he thinks they are too good. Alot of hosts do this; they wont even start a game if they dont think they have the advantage. This is seriously flawed and needs to be fixed.

There has to be a way that the lobby shows the level of play of a listed game in advance.

I'll happily play with other good players vs other good players, but I certainly won't be on the side of the noob team, getting stomp, where I know our winning chance is like 0.01%.

 

 

Good idea on the level of skill displayed in advance.

 

Perhaps we should rank our own and put that in name.... for example, "AU/NZ skill lvl 15/20)

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September 30, 2009 7:36:00 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Karma went downhill. Yes, the IF game:

If you play in a premade team, title the game accordingly with the "premade" word in it.

If you dont get players and retitle with no "premade" word, anwser honestly to people asking "premade?", and don't complain if they leave en masse when answered.

If you play in a premade team, don't join "no premades","casuals" or "mids" games.

As simple as that. I honestly can't see why you're complaining about people leaving your game after they found out you were premade and didn't title accordingly.

Yes many people have real lives out there and don't wanna have to check stats AND game history (   ) of every player in every game they enter, so they just ask "premade?" in lobby and hope for the best.

The absence of ingame stats is ridiculous in this day and age, having to ALT-TAB and web search for your teammates and opponents stats is excruciating, so any update that helps us get fair games faster is very much needed and urgent and will be very much appreciated.

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September 30, 2009 8:00:38 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting pacov,

Quoting generalkazar, reply 25I said this in frogboy's post and I will say it here too. There are not enough people playing demigod, so alienating a whole group of people that probably adds up to over 50% of the player base is not good for the game. This feature will probably be the final nail on the Demigod coffin, and it saddens me.

I agree that alienating premades = bad idea, but we'll see.  I don't think this will be the nail on Dgs coffin.  She's got some life left in her yet. 
I sort of agree with generalkazar. kazar might be slightly exagerrating but I do share some of his concerns. I always play with a friend because I don't have a lot of time to game each day. As you can tell by my stats on average I play about 3 games a day. and when I do play a game I want it to be with a friend or else it feels like a waste of time. If this new feature will have us sit and wait for a proper game even longer than we already are I'm affraid we'll have to quit the game. We quit Dawn of War 2 for the very same reason

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September 30, 2009 8:29:09 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The absence of ingame stats is ridiculous in this day and age, having to ALT-TAB and web search for your teammates and opponents stats is excruciating, so any update that helps us get fair games faster is very much needed and urgent and will be very much appreciated.

I find it shocking that anyone would think the addition of ingame stats check would be detrimental to the community.  All players should have the right to know who they're playing against, their win percentage and disconnects, and their familiarity with other teammates.  Stats check won't kill the game, in fact I think it'll bolster it.  It's probably safe to say that most Demigod players are puggers, so it's assuredly a feature that most would benefit from.  I play premade about 25-30% of the time, and let's be honest with ourselves -- the only reason we'd fear this update is the inability to 'trick' players (read: noobs) into a game without full disclosure (in order to get a game started without having to wait a century, or for an easy win).  It's actually quite shameful.  When we play as premade teams, we should be prepared to accept the consequences of seeking out matches with puggers, especially if we aren't forthcoming about our premade.

Several posters on this thread have suggested that everyone is alt-tabbing to check stats these days.  I beg to differ -- I'm pretty sure many of them are either too lazy or just aren't aware they can even check stats online.  A lot of them are noobs.  So when this update is released, all of a sudden players will start demanding balanced teams, which by their very nature premades are opposed to since they don't want to split up.  This will be a problem for premades -- but not for most Demigod players.  My hope is that this update will encourage more evenly matched games, because those are by far the most fun.

I've never encountered a premade team willing to play against itself.

My team from 2 nights ago http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&tab=popular&show=details&id=96870. the 2nd of 2 games. Some members on my team hate playing against each other but are willing to do some from time to time. The majority of my team actually enjoy our team matches against each other.

We've balanced a few games, but its really a matter of who's on my team.

Let me elaborate on that then... what I should've written is: I've never encountered a premade team willing to play against itself when there are puggers in the lobby.  And by this I mean, I've never seen it happen personally.  I've asked teams (that were most definitely premade) to split up before and balance things out, and only gotten immediate refusals, or worse, taunting.

Again, I play premade as well, and I understand how frustrating it is to wait forever for a full game.  I also understand that premades are usually uninterested in playing against themselves.  There's not much we can do aside from trying to arrange premade vs. premade matches every now and then.  That's why I play PUG quite a bit, I actually enjoy it just as much as playing with a premade.  But it's just not fair to take these grievances and hold them against the puggers, or decry the release of an extremely useful ingame utility that will empower ALL Demigod players to assess their potential to win before committing to a match.

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September 30, 2009 8:43:02 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Cowbuttzex,

In both of these instances you could of taken your 4 players put 2 on each team and had an interesting game. I don't feel bad for you at all that your rooms emptied out because those games would of been perfect definitions of what PUG stomping is. Honestly I don't understand why you are frustrated, you can't expect people to willingly get slaughtered game after game by your team as puggers.

I have said this before, if you truely want a more competitive experience EVERY time you play demigod split your premade up given the opprotunity. You will play more games and grow as a player instead of waiting in the lobby for 20 minutes with your team of four waiting for some poor pugs to walk in and get slaughtered. I honestly don't understand how you can even enjoy playing puggers game after game. I would get bored winning all the time.

The point of a premade is playing with friends against other people. There's a sense of accomplishment when you work together with friends to win a game. Playing against friends is just silly fun and no where near the same experiece.

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September 30, 2009 8:47:05 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Demonic Spoon,
How DARE people want to play a multiplayer team videogame with friends!

 

 

Really, this whole argument is stupid. Premades only have a real advantage if they're on voice chat...and I'd argue that any modern multiplayer game should include VOIP ingame anyway, so I see that more of a flaw in DG as with premades vs pugs. It's just that the type of person who plays with friends is also more likely to be a good player (a large part because they have someone to talk to about the game to talk about flaws, new strategies etc).

This is false. If you played with my team as much as I did you'd come to realize this. You know each other's builds, what to eexpect from each other, who is gettingg citadel upgrades at certain times, what flags your team knows is most important, which towers to hit first, when to retreat as a whole. The list goes on.

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September 30, 2009 8:54:22 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This is an interesting debate, and one with no clear cut solution until either Clan Wars are introduced or team matchmaking, stats or so on, if those are exclusive of each other.

I play with Pre and PuG, In fact i think i have played with and against everyone in this thread with the exception of a handful.

I will admit that when i am on my own i won't play another Pre as a PuG as it's a near guranteed stomp if i do. Problem is players tend to gravitate toward to each other based on skill so as a result many of the top flight players tend to be in the same Pre.

So as a PuG when joining games with thoe guys, you know your going against really good players, so in the end, as much fun as the game is, being stomped just isn't worth it.

When i PuG, i in no way resent or have any issue with Pre's, the behaviour you had in your lobby today Pacov was terrible. Hall of shame worthy IMHO.

Along with Lukas, Stacked and Ryan, i'd be happy to form a pre to play other Pre's more often. I dont' ge to play Pre as much as i'd like due to Timezones and work and such...

Maybe a Premade invite thread is needed. Anything that can promote more Premades has got to be a good thing. Maybe the current well known Pre's would invite others to pre with them against more of their in house guys.

If we had a "stable" if you will of about 20 or so guys all playing with each other and on voice...would there be any need to play PuGs?

Not all pre's need to be uber skillfull...invite more PuG's to join the Pre's and balance out the "stable" somewhat and let the games flow...

Now..about this Aussie challenge?

 

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September 30, 2009 9:01:08 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

the other reasons why premades are able to play against pugs in dota/hon is because the skill level is alot higher, and people are alot more competitive and understand the game, you learn the game ALOT faster if someone yells at you "YOU SUCK WTF ARE U DOING" or "DO THIS U IDIOT OFC HE WAS GUNNA USE THAT SPELL ON U".

 

I *VEHEMENTLY* disagree.  That shitty attitude that nearly drove me from this game.  Pull that crap w/ me in-game and we won't be playing together again.

 

Bolange,

Try that some time. Try for a few nights of only playing games you've previously arranged on the forums. And I can guarantee you that you won't be playing any games when you feeling like it. Add that into different timezones and real life difficulties. And you'll see why it isn't very feasible or fun to use the forums to set up games.

Oh yeah, I know.  I offer that as a *partial* solution since there isn't really a good one.  But like any other organized activity (tabletop rpg, sports team, WoW Raid, etc) you have to make a schedule and commit to it if you want significant numbers of folks to show up.  There are a few guys in a "casual" group that I"m a part of.  We hope on vent and play together when we're online.  But rather than complain about not getting games in when they're not around, I just play Pantheon and/or custom games.  Actually, I do complain but mostly about the faili match making in Pantheon and/or ragequitters.

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September 30, 2009 9:12:56 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

If you play in a premade team, title the game accordingly with the "premade" word in it.

If you dont get players and retitle with no "premade" word, anwser honestly to people asking "premade?", and don't complain if they leave en masse when answered.

If you play in a premade team, don't join "no premades","casuals" or "mids" games.

As simple as that.

Done/done/done.  No complaints at all when people join and ask if premade and I'm always honest if asked.  Again, ask if you have a question.  This has never been an issue with me my premade when I've played with them.  I'm pretty sure you won't ever see me in noob/casual/no premade/intermediate games. 

Would be nice if hosts actually checked stats and kicked inadequate players more frequently if they've labelled their game "Good players only" or something, instead of ensuring good players on their team (premade or not) and not caring about the other.

Leads to a better game for everyone.

But then again, as pacov has clearly stated, getting a game going is in most cases clearly a higher priority than getting a GOOD game going.

If I'm the host of a no noobs or pro game, I am typically actively weeding out lousy players that do not look like they can play at that level based on stats.  If I'm not the host, I'm probably not even checking stats.  And seriously, no one here's enjoys a laid back game from time to time? I've already been pretty clear that my premade plays against premades, itself, pugs, etc based on availability. 

I find it shocking that anyone would think the addition of ingame stats check would be detrimental to the community. All players should have the right to know who they're playing against, their win percentage and disconnects, and their familiarity with other teammates. Stats check won't kill the community, in fact I think it'll bolster it. It's probably safe to say that most Demigod players are puggers, so it's assuredly a feature that most would benefit from.

I don't think in game stats will be detrimental.  I think it will be an added bonus that will help out many people who wouldn't have normally thought to check stats or simply did not because alt+tab might = a crash.  I also agree that most DG players (including Frogboy) are puggers (70-90% of the population would be my guess) and as a result, their concerns should (will) be addressed. 

Let me elaborate on that then... what I should've written is: I've never encountered a premade team willing to play against itself when there are puggers in the lobby. And by this I mean, I've never seen it happen personally. I've asked teams (that were most definitely premade) to split up before and balance things out, and only gotten immediate refusals, or worse, taunting.

I've done this before, but its somewhat rare.  This typically takes a different form for me though.  If I meet someone Pugging and they are interested, I get them access to my vent server and we play some games together.  If they want to keep playing together, the become a part of the team.  And then, when my team plays against each other, we fight it out. 

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September 30, 2009 9:18:31 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Why don't you try hosting a 5v5 premade only lobby and let me know how long it takes to fill up for you?  Just wait it out.   What's that?  10 minutes have gone by and your lobby is completely empty?  Why not try a 4v4 premade and tell one of your buds to take a hike?  Oh, you tried that too and your lobby is still empty?  You'd rather just get a game going instead of playing the exciting lobby game?  Well, sorry, you're a jerk.  You should wait it out.  Especially if you want to play with your friends.  That's only ok if you don't play with your friends all of the time.

I think I've played more 5v5s than any other group. We tried labelling it 5v5 Premade. You can check my record to see how well that went.

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September 30, 2009 9:20:31 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You will play more games and grow as a player instead of waiting in the lobby for 20 minutes with your team of four waiting for some poor pugs to walk in and get slaughtered.

That's kinda funny if you think about it, more so cause it happens all the time.  Those poor, poor noobs.

Seriously though... in most competitive activities, sports, games, etc., the best players/teams are routinely matched against each other to determine who is truly the most skilled.  Premade 'teams' in Demigod don't technically count since they aren't ranked as one entity, but only individually.  Thus, those players that are super high-ranked can only really compete against each other, and they've realized this, which may explain their unwillingness to play each other, and instead play together against teams that are hardly qualified to face them.  If they enjoy that sort of thing, then that's not really my business.

But those poor, poor noobs... think of the noobs!  Imagine if you had just bought Demigod, sat down with a plate of cookies and kicked your girlfriend out of the house, started up Demigod, seen a "4v4 FUN FUN FUN" that was mostly full and thought "awesome!"  20 minutes later, you were crying while on the shitter after spending more time sitting through the death screen than actually playing.

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