3v3 Cat Stun? Counters?

By on September 21, 2009 9:53:40 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

playgroundl...

Join Date 07/2009
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Been trying to figure this out. If you play vs rook, erebus, beast. How they heck can you avoid triple stun on cataract.

1. Boulder gets thrown first, goes down the "bowling alley" of the map.

2. Erebus does bat swarm to close the gap, followed by mass charm

3. Beast walks up, and does foul grasp.

4. While all of this is happening. Once rook throws his boulder, he begins walking up for a slam.

5. If you survive all of that, you are slown down from the bite, and slam and boulder recharge is back, and even if recharge takes a few more seconds, boulder goes the length of cat, no matter which direction you go it's a straight away. So you get bouldered again, and the cycle repeats itself. you're dead.

6. proceed to fight 3v2, or cap their gold mine

I've played against this 3 times, and have no idea how to counter it. Thoughts?

 

I am clueless

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September 21, 2009 10:11:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Cap flags on the other side and center forcing them to seperate or fall behind in war rank.  Attack in mass when they are alone.  Fight behind the towers and hope they get aggressive (read: cocky) and one strays into the towers where you can stun and tele-gank them.

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September 21, 2009 11:06:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

oaks shield.

sedna heal/silence.

sigil of vitality.

pots.

universal gadget.

totem of revelation.

journeymans treads.

cloak of night.

warpstone.

hope that helps.

 

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September 22, 2009 1:02:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The problem is, this becomes a serious threat at level 5, which is still early game.

 

Rook at level 5 has tower power, archer and laser turrets, boulder, slam

Ereb at level 5 has: bite 2, charm 2, bat swarm

Beast at level 5 has: grasp - ooze / spit etc.

I played 3x with an oak ally. He will shield whoever is focus fired on first, but when erebus does bat swarm into charm, they change targets to the next lowest HP ally who is caught in stun and doesnt have shield on them.

I played beast last game, sigils help keep you alive longer, but you will still not survive.

 

warpstone = 5500 gold. in order to afford that at level 5 I have to buy nothing else, so i die either way cuz I have no armor.

Pots are intterupted. plus you have to stop moving if you use a pot, and thats your death as well.

Cloak was great, our oak had it, once boulder hits us, he would cloak behind the rook, and penitence him before the first slam comes out. But now he's deeper behind the enemy, and the other 2 teammates still have to worry about charm / grasp and the 2nd boulder thats almost off cooldown.

Sedna heal would be good, except if they see a sedna, they would just focus attack her instead, otherwise yes, she could heal an ally. She becomes the new target, thats the issue with her.

Journeyman are too expensive at this point in the game

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September 22, 2009 1:09:23 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Trigeminal,
Cap flags on the other side and center forcing them to seperate or fall behind in war rank.  Attack in mass when they are alone.  Fight behind the towers and hope they get aggressive (read: cocky) and one strays into the towers where you can stun and tele-gank them.

 

Problem is they are never alone. Rook has amulet of TP favor. and he drops 1 tower in each lane, so even if he doesn't cap a flag, his allies can TP onto the tower. It's now 3v3, and it becomes a stun fest.

 

The thing is, they don't need to separate. Rook puts a tower down next to our gold mine tower, moves to the other side of it, begins hitting the tower for massive damage, the other 2 heros move in for the tower kill as well. If you decide, "screw it, let them have the tower, lets just take their gold mine tower as a counter" it doesnt work. They kill your tower before you kill theirs, then they tp ontop of their damaged tower, and its a stun fest. If you choose to defend your tower, it's hard because that's the lane that rook was slowly moving up, so there's a mass of towers there, and 3 stun heroes. Rook places towers so they hit your tower, plus his shoulder cannons are blasting your tower as well, so in reality you're defending nothing. Plus, you eat slams all day because of charm + graps, rook doesnt need level 2 boulder to land a clean slam with those allies.

If you ignore them, they just locked your gold mine.

The players are smart enough to not run past towers at low level without armor.

 

They want you to fight them straight up, thats how they do the most damage, even if it's 3v3. They still have advantage. If you cower behind your own tower, rook TP's with amulet to the other side, and works your other tower...... someone has to move. if you don't. that tower is dead. As long as rook can put down a tower next to your bases tower, he can work yoru tower while taking 0 damage.

 

I didn't just make this post because i'm lazy. im really having a difficult time figuring out a counter, but i dont want to be the first person to scream imba. I have a different hero order my team can go to counter, but I have to test it out still. Just need to play those players 1 more time.

 

Also, war rank is sorta irrelevant in this match. They go for a super early push, either before you go back to shop for the first time and get cur 1 / tower health, or immediately afterwards. The game is over by the time you or one of your allies gets level 10.... which is what made going oak kinda silly because we could not use his true potential because by the time he got level 10 the game was practically over.

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September 22, 2009 1:37:05 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I've been on the bitter end of that playstyle on cat. and prison as well.  In that specific game we were dominating in war score & kills until the other team hit level 5 or so.  There was a Sedna, Erebus & UB combo where the Sed had silence and magnificent presence which dropped everyones cooldowns, Erebus had mass charm and im not sure which favor item.  The beast had either renewal or dagger (can't remember).  My team had an oak, beast and regulus.  We had no idea how to counter it and still dont.

Im hoping to find a way to counter that team build myself.

 

At level 5:

oaks shield - lasts for 3 seconds and the 35 second cooldown is nto a good counter at all

sedna heal/silence. as long as she is far enough away from the mass charm it could work.

sigil of vitality - nice item but get expensive quick.

pots - interruptable and long cast time.

universal gadget - nice item but long cast time as well

totem of revelation. - just lets you know the shit storm is coming a bit sooner haha.

journeymans treads - would be nice but at level 5 is too expensive

cloak of night - would be nice and effective but chances are by level 5 (where i realized the opposing team was stun stacking) i already picked up BoTF

warpstone - too expensive.

 

 

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September 22, 2009 1:42:31 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Playground, I agree, it's a tough fight.  

I think the best advice is the piece Trigeminal wrote: cap mid and hold the other side flags. They WILL need to separate, or fall behind in war score.  If they move to mid to cap, go get the other flag and lock.  If they are capping your gold flag, cap theirs.

The next best is the Sedna advice: silence at 5.  That's when you should start moving in on their group.   She has a 15 second cool down on it (I think), which is pretty quick.

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September 22, 2009 2:26:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Yeah i dont want to say what my next team strat will be because i dont want it countered. but it will involve sedna. Next time i play them ill let you know.

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September 22, 2009 5:06:59 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

TB would also be a viable option with deepfreeze.

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September 22, 2009 5:40:31 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Agreed.  I think the TB freeze option and sed's silence, coupled with MAYBE using Diamond Pendant?  I'd love to see that item get buffed to 15%.

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September 22, 2009 6:39:53 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

U could also use boulder roll against them.

don't totally discount using their moves, because their not theirs.

im not saying u should copy them, but u can interrupt them, and yeah, i think TB could have potential, and has any1 considered Reg?

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September 22, 2009 7:33:26 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

tb is too squishy. Not to mention erebus / beast murder that character like woahhhh. bite / spit / ooze / charm / grasp... yeah..

 

you guys are missing the main threat. it's not rook, or towers its the combo of towers, shoulder towers, boulder (stun), grasp (stun), mass charm (stun), Bite (slow), ooze (slow), hammer (slow). Thats the issue.

 

You can't run, because you get caught by boulder, or bat swarm into range, then mass charm.

You can't fight because the stuns set you up for slam and serious dps.

You can't heal, or tp, because you get interrupted.

and if you survive the attack, you are slow, and the stuns are off cooldown by the time the third stun is finished. So you get stunned again as you try to hobble off to safety.

 

It's not a team killer, as in it wont rock all three of your teammates, but it will kill 1 for sure. and leave 2 weak. and 3v2 with 2 weak guys isnt good considering the other team hasn't taken a hit yet. And even if they did, beast casts sigil of vitality, erebus does bite, and if rook is realy getting hit hard, he has TP favor, boulder , charm, grasp. Buys time for a safe TP and he's gone

 

Not to mention erebus has priests from the start for constant heal.

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September 22, 2009 8:04:27 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You can go for a 3v3 fight (run around as a full team if they do so), or you can just sit way back behind towers whenever you know they're not spread out, and if they still go for someone, tele in when LE batswarms.  If you have Oak, you should be able to win 3v3 easily; interrupt Mass Charm, and don't waste shield early.

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September 22, 2009 8:26:03 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Wogrim,
You can go for a 3v3 fight (run around as a full team if they do so), or you can just sit way back behind towers whenever you know they're not spread out, and if they still go for someone, tele in when LE batswarms.  If you have Oak, you should be able to win 3v3 easily; interrupt Mass Charm, and don't waste shield early.

 

What you are saying is right.... except this starts at level 5. in full effect. Gotta read what I already wrote up above my friend.

at level 5 oak you won't have shield 3, which will give you enough time to shield someone to run away.

It's not about "tele'ing in" as much as they tele on you

they leave rook alone, he has towers down, they TP to towers, and stun the shit out of you. Rook has TP favor. so the other 2 guys can get rook support at any time. Even if you tele in to help and the scenario is different, it's still not stopping 3 players from repeat stunning your guys and killing a teammate.

 

You could interrupt mass charm... if you werent stunned by the boulder that came first. In the real world, you might have a split second for penitence, but when its 3v3 on one part of the map, the game slows down and has at least a .5 second lag. And if you had penitence selected as mass charm goes off.... congrats you're on cooldown

 

The three times I played vs this, I had oak on my team each round (gotta read above). and no, we did not win easily. 1 of the three dies the second they all tp in, boulder, slam, grasp, bite, charm, focus attack, tower damage etc. it's too much at level 5. The reason why you can't win 3v3 is because rook can slam for free, without having level 2 boulder, because when you get hit by charm and grasp you are stunned for like 3.5 seconds straight. And the boulder is thrown first, so the rook cna move into position. And since you were attacking rook, and his allies TP in, you were already close to him to begin with. So, yes, you get slammed early.

 

To those who say go sedna: the other team makes senda their target, can't heal when you're dead

To those who say TB: TB is squishy and will be the main target, he will drop instantly

To those who say reg: squishy as well, see TB above.

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September 22, 2009 8:30:13 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hmmmm.... I think a replay would be helpful

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September 22, 2009 8:33:52 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I played this for the third time last night, so no replays. If I see it again I will post it up.

 

What's ironic is I thought of this strat about a month ago while hammered at a BBQ with my friend who also plays DG. Now I'm seeing it it's beastly. I still have 1 idea I can try, but I need to play those guys again.

 

For those who are curious, it was this game vs posidenii, wipuliwo, and orcun_bl

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/974334/player/72049/

everytime I play against posiden, his allies (doesn't matter who) go erebus and beast and do the same strat. It's way strong.

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September 23, 2009 1:01:34 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

you guys are missing the main threat. it's not rook, or towers its the combo of towers, shoulder towers, boulder (stun), grasp (stun), mass charm (stun), Bite (slow), ooze (slow), hammer (slow). Thats the issue.

hammer doesnt have slow until full lvl.

ooze doesnt slow at all.

anyway my solution (only hypothetical) is this:

TB, Oak and sedna.

sedna gets cloak of night favour item, others get what they want.

TB hp/armor stacks, with a sigil of vitality always handy.

sedna solos in one lane, whilest tb and oak pair up in another lane.

when you see rook teleport to oak and TB you split appart so you both arent stunned, if oak is stunned TB uses frost nova(at max possible range) and deep freeze to try and interrupt. when TB is stunned/slowed oak uses shield and stands his monk idols next to him whilst he is running away.

if rook teleports to kill sedna he uses cloak of night, silence or heal or health pot.

this setup is still flawed i know, but thats how i would try and counter this setup.

 

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September 23, 2009 1:23:11 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I did read the whole thread.  It does not start at level 5 "in full effect" because you listed Rook having towers, slam, 2x shoulder, and Boulder Roll.  If he has all of those, towers and slam are both level 1 and not that big a deal.  If they're teleporting on top of you and killing you that just means you've overextended yourself.  Certain DGs should not go against the Rook if they're doing that, since they won't be able to deal with the towers without getting telestomped; send Reg or LE, or if you don't have one of those, tower Rook or an Oak with minions.  Or flame-circle TB I guess.  Whatever can take the towers out without too much risk.  (You could also try to 2v1 the Rook, but I'm not sure how well your 3rd DG would hold up.

Don't expect to win against Posidenii without a top-notch premade anyways.

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September 23, 2009 1:54:48 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The full effect I'm talking about isn't so much about weak level 1 towers, weak level 1 slam..... it's the fact that at level 5 the three demigods all have their stun spell. That's the full effect. That's the point everyone is missing. It's the stunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn that's crazy. Everything else is just a bonus. if you're stunned for 5+ seconds at level 5 and all 3 demi gods are hitting you with everything they got...... then they resume stunning you a few seconds later........ you're dead.

 

You can't 2v1 the rook. I'll say this for the last time (I sound bitchy although I do appreciate the input, but most people fail to think before they post, a post doesnt help me, an insightful post helps me) If you gang up on the rook, his allies TP in and you get triple stunned, and the triple stun cycle can be repeated in twice in one battle. (THAT'S THEIR STRAT. THEY WANT YOU TO DO THAT). If you gang up on rook, he sees you coming, and allies dont have TP's... he has amulet of teleport favor item. He tp's out, and they 3v1 your tower on the opposite side.

If you keep the rook at bay, and let him push. His allies tp in, and 3v1 your gold mine tower. Your options are as follows: (Last time I am going to write this)

1. Defend your tower, eat triple stun x2 in 1 battle.

2. Ignore them.... lose your tower and get your gold mine capped early

3A. Go for their tower, except they do more damage vs towers than you because of spit + hammer slam + rook towers placed near your base tower.

3B. Your base tower drops before you can kill their base tower........ All three guys TP on top of you - triple stun x2 in one battle.

"Don't expect to win against Posidenii without a top-notch premade anyways." I think Posiden is great, he's rank 1, and played 18 games since the patch got released hours ago. says something about his dedication to the video game. That's not the issue. The issue is that your little sister could pwn anyone with this strategy. If you really wanted to counter it, you have to know that they are going to do it before the match even starts, pick your demi gods accordingly, pick your abilities accordingly and work as a team. It's easier to cast interrupts and stuns than it is to interrupt them. You have to work harder, be psychic and know that they were planning this anyway, and have a counter plan for this one specific strategy. It's not a typical match where you can pick your dg's, adapt as the game goes on, and out play someone. You have to be specifically looking for this strat, and if you don't see it coming, you're finished.

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September 23, 2009 2:01:40 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

That's the point everyone is missing. It's the stunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn that's crazy.

actually we didnt miss that at all. u said that ROOK boulders first. so if u survive that your fine right?

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September 23, 2009 2:05:55 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

No, because if the rook misses, you have to deal with charm and grasp, and boulder cooldown will be back shortly after both spells are cast and finished. Since the erebus has bat swarm and charm, he can effectively stun you from great distances. Giving beast time to walk up and grasp. If boulder misses, I guess you could say "then interrupt the charm." Problem with the charm is you select penitence / pounce / interrupt of your choice, and click on erebus. He's now teleporting, the game doesn't auto correct your interrupt for that, so you still have your interrupt selected in your DG in game dashboard. He stuns as soon as he gets out of bat swarm and now your interrupt is on cooldown even thouh you never got a chance to use it. In a perfect world, you could do this, with the current state of DG internet coupled with the slowdown of 6 players on screen in 1 spot at the same time from different parts of the world - you can't interrupt in time. For pen you have to click 2 - move mouse over to erebus - then click on him. All erebus has to do is bat swarm - then mash the 3 button for mass charm. No aiming / pointing / clicking required. And it's area of effect. Hitting your entire team.

 

Perhaps the 'level 5" thing is what's throwing everyone off. Even if you don't die. Your team is hurt, and you didnt do a single point of damage to them yet. So they are free to wreck your tower. Or, you fight them at half health, and they murder your entire team by repeating the same process all over again.

P.S. If a rook misses boulder on cataract, he should uninstall the game. It's a narrow corridor straight away - no matter which direction you go and he has 3 potential targets. The one he hits, signals to the rest of the guys who the stun victim will be. Also, when I said ooze slows, I wasn't referring to movement speed, just attack speed, I figured any negative effect is worth mentioning.

 

I mean, seriously think about this. The team on the other end of the internets does this:

1. Rook: hit "1" left click - Right click on stunned enemy - 3 Actions

2. Erebus: hit "4" bat swarm near stunned target.... press 3. Press "1" left click on enemy for bite, then right click on enemy. 6 Actions

3. Beast: Right click on enemy - press "4" left click on enemy. right click again - 4 Actions

Total: 13 button / mouse clicks for the team. No "timing" required because you're fuckign stunned still stupid haha.

 

Other team:

TIME an intterupt.

Use cloak to avoid

heal allies

shield allies

use items

whatever else you want to do it doesn't really matter. Point being you have to work much harder just to survive, not even beat it.

The other team does 13 actions between 3 players on a non-moving still target, and it counters most if not all matchups you can throw at it. My point is..... how do you counter the 2 strongest gameplay mechanics stun and damage?

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September 23, 2009 2:17:52 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

No, because if the rook misses, you have to deal with charm and grasp, and boulder cooldown will be back shortly after both spells are cast and finished. Since the erebus has bat swarm and charm, he can effectively stun you from great distances.

ofc thats going to happen.

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September 23, 2009 2:36:06 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

My only suggestion is Orb of Defiance, and play tower gaurd strat. And make sure your team has TP scrolls for counter gank or lane switch. TB would be ok for tower defense, as long as they go frost. Me personally Like QoT in this situation if your playing her as tank/support. Bubble can make such a huge difference.

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September 23, 2009 2:38:28 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

To put this into perspective for gamers who play other games, but haven't encountered this in demi god yet. it looks like this.

 

Warcraft 3 Frozen Throne:  A human player has 3 mountain kings (impossible but bear with me) bolt, clap, bolt, clap, bolt, clap............ you're dead

Or, you're playing a 3v3. Team is 3 undead players with death knight, lich, crypt lord.

Impale, coil, nova, impale, coil, nova, impale, coil, nova................ you're dead

Warcraft exception: You can't have 3 of the same hero in a 1v1, and teleports render your hero invincible, health pots are instants, and there is an item that grants invincibility.

If this wasn't impossible in the game, your little sister could make Korean Pro Gamer Moon her little bitch.

Counter strike: Imagine the flash bang grenade, but imagine if it only blinded the other team. You're playing 3v3.

Guy #1: runs through door throws flash bang

Guy #2: few seconds later..... throws another flash bang

Guy #3: A few seconds after guy #2..... throws another flash bang

.......................... you're dead

Counter Strike Exception: Flash bangs blind everyone in the room regardless of which team threw one.

If this wasn't impossible in the game, your little sister could make fata1ity look like a scrub.

 

Street Fighter 4:

level 3 focus attack, into stun. Combo them. Another level 3 focus attack into stun, combo them, another level 3 focus attack into stun, combo them.

If this wasn't impossible in the game, your little sister could make Daigo Umehara look like a scrub

 

The games mentioned have things in the game that coutner abuses such as those. It's called balance. In Demi God, there is a cap on how much you can slow someone, theoretically if that cap didnt exist, your team could focus fire a hero with slow and he would look like he's running but actually be standing still. The developers realized that it's retarded and added a slow cap.

Why isn't there a cap for stun? Everyone can just abuse mass stun. It doesn't matter who your character is, how good your allies are, how much team work you use. If you're stunned you're stunned. And if you're stunned you can't do anything - with the Demi God penalty added which is if you have a spell or item clicked on as you are about to get stunned, you automatically have cooldown with that item without even using it.

 

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September 23, 2009 2:49:57 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Why isn't there a cap for stun? Everyone can just abuse mass stun. It doesn't matter who your character is, how good your allies are, how much team work you use. If you're stunned you're stunned.

there is a cap on stun. 2/3 seconds of immunity so u cannot chain it. unsurprisingly the only exception to this rule is UB's foul grasp, thats the only way they can chain stun you.

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September 23, 2009 3:05:18 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Xenogenic,
My only suggestion is Orb of Defiance, and play tower gaurd strat. And make sure your team has TP scrolls for counter gank or lane switch. TB would be ok for tower defense, as long as they go frost. Me personally Like QoT in this situation if your playing her as tank/support. Bubble can make such a huge difference.

I like your idea. Only problem is then you give them map control. Which leads to war score. Also, if you're sitting next to a tower you get xp for the grunts the tower kills, but you only get gold if you kill the grunt itself directly. Your opponent will be getting full xp / gold from creep waves and have war score. If you have QOT, and any other 2 dg's you still have to fight these guys eventually. Shield will mitigate damage, but they can just target the guy who doesn't have a shield on, or just target the qot because she's relatively weak / slow. And stun isn't absorbed by the shield. I think you have a point, you could last longer in battle, but you're not gonna be able to shield a rook, erebus, beast team to death hehe. God forbid you have your finger on the shield button when the AOE mass charm stun occurs...... no more shield for you.

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