1.2 Stat Reset - What does the community think?

By on September 6, 2009 6:48:18 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

pacov

Join Date 02/2008
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Not that we necessarily have a say in this, but I thought I'd put the question out there: should there be a stat reset when 1.2 goes live?  The possible reset options would be to reset favor and/or reset stats.

My thought is that we shouldn't do a stat reset in any form when 1.2 goes live.  My reasoning is that the last stat reset occurred with 1.1 (if I remember right), but there were still quite a few stat reporting issues present that weren't identified immediately.  I'd instead prefer to wait until after 1.2 goes live to give people a chance to report any new stat issues and then we can go live with a reset (stats only). 

Thoughts?

Update from Frogboy in today's dev journal (http://forums.demigodthegame.com/364502):

Q: When is Epoch 3 going to come and what stats are going to be changed?

A: Epoch 3 will likely come with v1.2.  Favor points will stay but the actual win/loss and other stats will be reset (still accessible as Epoch 2 though).

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September 6, 2009 7:08:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Depends on how balanced this new demigod is (if he's coming in 1.2)... I'm dubious of shadow swap.

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September 6, 2009 7:34:14 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm with pacov. Stats should mean something, and for that to be true the system needs to work flawlessly. The v1.2 patch will surely leave some (yet unknown) stats issues which should be adressed in hotfixes.

Anyways, imho it would be good to not reset the favor points any more because casual gamers who play less often would have quite a disadvantage for some time.

 

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September 6, 2009 7:44:58 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Anyways, imho it would be good to not reset the favor points any more because casual gamers who play less often would have quite a disadvantage for some time.

yes

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September 6, 2009 7:48:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

God...i'd hate to have to live through another favor reset.....

As for stats though, yes a reset will be needed IMHO, we have seen a few D/C  exploits in the latest patches so that needs to be cleared up. But more importantly the two new DG's may, as Sly has eluded too, upset the apple cart somewhat.

Maybe a reset a few weeks after all the little peices of 1.2 are done and finalized???

Not Favor though.....leave favor.....Alone.

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September 6, 2009 7:54:12 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Myself and others have mentioned this before, but until custom games support the separation of organized team games and PUGs, the stats are still fairly meaningless.  I think even Frogboy realized this with his earlier suggestion on a tweak to the Connections window that would help identifying organized teams.  Randomized teams are another option, though that can lead to teams with duplicate demigods, which not everyone likes.

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September 6, 2009 8:20:57 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

1-10 exp points per win and 50-100 exp points per loss is not an effective system imo and until that gets fixed no need to reset stats really

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September 6, 2009 8:43:05 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Frogboy mentioned himself that though there would be periodic stat reset, there would be NO more favor point reset (the reason for the first one was because FP was buggy and some people, like me, had won 2000 favor points per match for about 3 matches in a row) and had put us on a high plane than other people since we could get any favor item.

However, I don't think it'll happen again.

I know that Frogboy has said he wants to stat-reset, but also only if it WORKS. It clearly doesn't now... and it probably won't next time.

So, I think we shouldn't, but maybe is everything DOES work we an have a 1.2.1 stat reset.

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September 6, 2009 10:58:20 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting brjoha,
Myself and others have mentioned this before, but until custom games support the separation of organized team games and PUGs, the stats are still fairly meaningless.  I think even Frogboy realized this with his earlier suggestion on a tweak to the Connections window that would help identifying organized teams.  Randomized teams are another option, though that can lead to teams with duplicate demigods, which not everyone likes.

^What he said.  Until people can make some meaningful, informed choices about setting up games and who they play with and against (i.e., visible stats in the lobby, premade info, random teams option, etc.), resetting stats will likely end up with people eventually having similar stats to the ones they have now.  Anyhow, I believe that favor points should not be reset.

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September 6, 2009 11:01:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

1-10 exp points per win and 50-100 exp points per loss is not an effective system imo and until that gets fixed no need to reset stats really
That's not how it works currently. When my friend bought the game I was certain my rating would tank when we played together. I lost virtually no experience in spite of losing 4-5 times a day and winning only 5-10. In fact I continued to rank up during that first week he bought the game.

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September 6, 2009 11:10:32 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

once stats are 100% fixed and it is impossible to exploit as a host. reset it asap.

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September 7, 2009 12:36:22 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Just tagging this so it shows up in my replies. 

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September 7, 2009 1:15:57 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Every time there's a major balance shift there should be a ladder reset. Everyone disparages the current rankings because of how useless they are and yet they defend them endlessly when a reset it brought up.

Reset the ladder when the patch goes live, the abuses and glitches make up a tiny portion of total games.

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September 7, 2009 1:16:22 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

What's the point in resetting the stats? They'd still be just as meaningless as they are now. Without fixing the system it's just going to have the same issues all over again. It reminds me of GPG 'fixing' supcom's 2v2 ladder, except all they did was reset it and not fix the underlying problems with it. (The problems were however, much different than the demigod ladder.)

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September 7, 2009 2:45:10 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Rest the stats, fine. Don't take away out favor items or favor points.

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September 7, 2009 6:10:09 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I hate the idea of stats reset. Actually I mean favours reset, I don't care about the rest of stats. But I don't play a lot and I would hate to have to re-grind favour points to get favour items back.

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September 7, 2009 7:17:12 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Stat reset shouldn't be bothered with until any possible issues caused by 1.2 are given time to be encountered in the wild instead of just internal testing. 

Favor reset shouldn't need to occur again, ever.  It honestly serves next to no purpose to reset it.

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September 7, 2009 7:56:04 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I would think it goes without saying after the last stat reset that the community needs to be given time to find any exploits others may use to ruin the system.

So give us some time after patch to find some exploiters once again.

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September 7, 2009 11:40:39 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting RapierX,
What's the point in resetting the stats? They'd still be just as meaningless as they are now. Without fixing the system it's just going to have the same issues all over again. It reminds me of GPG 'fixing' supcom's 2v2 ladder, except all they did was reset it and not fix the underlying problems with it. (The problems were however, much different than the demigod ladder.)
Stats work fine for the most part right now. The only ones that are truly broken are the individual demigod rankings.

If your rank is bad it's because you play against poorly ranked players.

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September 7, 2009 1:44:37 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The more I think about this topic, the more I think that a stats reboot will be completely pointless.  All this will do is prevent those with experience from playing others with experience.  I think that instead there needs to be a complete overhaul of the system.

I think the majority of players have found that the ranking system (AKA the Elo system) does not do a good job in describing a player's skill.  There are two primary reasons for this.  The first is that it's a team game.  If the team as a whole does bad, even stellar play on an individual's part will not produce a win.  Second, people of similar rankings do not play each other consistantly.  Do some reading on this system and pay attention to the assumptions made to see why this system has failed us in DG.

To illustrate this point, my current rating is apx 2400.  This makes me slightly short of being a Grand Master.  However there are players with 3000+ rating, and at least one player over 7000.  These numbers are literally unheard of in this ranking system and shows that it's really not working.  Those at the rating 100 end of the spectrum are vast in number, and really don't have that bad of records.

One solution might be to implement some sort of cutoff.  For example, you must play someone +- 500 experience for that match to count.  So if I had an experience of 2000, I would not improve my ranking any by playing someone with an experience of 1000.  This, I think, would make matchmaking (especially in custom) difficult.

In the end, I base a player's skill on three things.  1: Their overall record.  2: Their record playing that specific DG.  3: The quality of player they beat.  The problem is, there's no simple way of displaying #3.  Perhaps an "Average experience of foe" tab.  So if a player reads: Overall 200-10, Erebus 65-5, XP of Foe 200, that player would probably be an ok player who can noobstomp.  If a player reads Overall 50-50, Erebus 20-20, XP of Foe 1500, that player would probably be better than the previous noobstomper.

This would prevent people with a practically undefeated record from feeling good about themselves if it's displayed that they only play far lower ranked players.

-- Tukulis

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September 7, 2009 4:59:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Stats will never mean anything with the current forumula. I have great record imo 191-120 and I am ranked in the 30k's. I can compete with anyone in the top 1000 and beat them with a decent team. I don't care about stats. I memorize names because stats in Demigod will always be meaningless with the current system

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September 7, 2009 8:25:33 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ahh the wonderful stats.

As has been said many times, after the new patch is out we really need to let the stats be for a while, that way we can see if things like this are still taking place....

I have seen this before happen to other folks but first time i have witnessed it. I was never in that game.

It's things like that that need attention for a stat reset to actually be of any value.

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September 7, 2009 8:41:52 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Neilo,
Ahh the wonderful stats.

As has been said many times, after the new patch is out we really need to let the stats be for a while, that way we can see if things like this are still taking place....

Reduced 66%Original 898 x 507

I have seen this before happen to other folks but first time i have witnessed it. I was never in that game.

It's things like that that need attention for a stat reset to actually be of any value.
I have about 450 games and that's only happened to me once. It's caused when a game starts as you connect and it fails to boot you.

Today I suffered two losses for games, I won one game and I conceded another when it started with me and 2 AIs against 3 players... except one of those players took so long to load that the 5 minutes passed before the game began and it counted as a loss.

I don't like losing, I'd love to have a pristine record, but when it comes down to it those two losses will have a minimal impact on my overall stats and very little will have changed.

The system isn't perfect, but you guys are really harping on factors that are statistically pretty unimportant (though of course they can be personally important, as they're frustrating).

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September 7, 2009 10:04:03 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I know a lot of people don't like the favour point reset, and I know a few people that said they will stop playing Demigod if they reset the favour points again. If people are so passionate about this, then I say get rid of favour points and let anyone get any favour item's they choose. Eventually everyone will get enough to get everything, so what is the point of favour points in the long run? If they do regular reset of the favour points, then it makes a bit of sense as people will have to re-earn them. If not, get rid of it all together.

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September 7, 2009 11:24:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It's caused when a game starts as you connect and it fails to boot you.

Ok. any other reasoning for it known so far, as i did not even attempt to join this game, as you can it was labeled as a noob game, so of little interest to me.

The system isn't perfect, but you guys are really harping on factors that are statistically pretty unimportant (though of course they can be personally important, as they're frustrating).

Yeah you are right, but as you did mention, it is supremely frustrating to get a loss on a game i had zero involvement with, but only from an ego stat loving point of view.

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September 7, 2009 11:30:11 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Personally, I don't think a Stat Reset with 1.2 is warranted. As has already been mentioned, let's wait until the system works irrefuteably before we do it again otherwise we're rocking the boat for no real reason.

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