UB + Sedna Builds

By on July 27, 2009 12:49:34 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Kokujin

Join Date 05/2009
+13

Well, I will post my UB build. After playing with lots of builds I find this one to be my personal favorite. I will add that I’ve mainly used this build in prison.

First, the skills.

1 – Spit

2 – Ooze

3 – Save

4 – Spit & Ooze

5 – Grasp

6 – Save

7 – Spit & Ooze

8 – Stats

9 – Save

10 – Spit & Ooze

11-14 (Stats and Post Mortem line, you get post mortem when the grunts are bought by the other team).

15 – Spit (yeah, spit all the way, damage all the way).

16-19 (Stats and Post Mortem line).

20 – Whatever (I only made this far once with this build, I bought Inner Beast, because more damage is cool, so I have heard).

Favor: BotF

Items

Banded Armor + Scalemail (at the start, yeah, spit and no helm and no mana favor, yeah, I know, shhhhhh, I know).

The other 3 item slots: Unbreakable, Nimoth, Vlemish (the order you buy them depends on what you need at the time).

Items you have to know how to use to be a tank and smash little puppets: Sigil of Vitality, Small potions of life, Teleport Scrolls, Universal Gadgets. (actually you have to know how to use, and how powerful these items are, when playing any DG).

Well, you might say this build will lack mana items, you are right and wrong. This build is not spit harassment, you have to be patient and only use spit and grasp wisely, otherwise this build won’t work and you will say it sucks, well, this build doesn’t suck, in matter of fact I believe it’s the best UB build, at least for prison, at least when you playing with a Sedna on your team.  But I believe it’s the best overall UB build, for my play stile at least.

By lvl.15 you will have almost 6000 HP, and 50% D.A. Pretty solid eh? Plus Sigil, Plus small potions, Plus Gadged, Plus Spit & Ooze & Graps, you are the ultimate DPS’er/Tanker. On my book this is just ownage.

Why the build is like it is (answering questions my mind just created):

Why Hybrid? Because you out damage anything another UB may cause to you, so, you out damage anything in 1x1 (let’s not talk about facing minions, that means in buying counter items that I won’t talk about, and counter skills, that I won’t cover either).

Why Post Mortem at lvl.11+? Well, first, you can buy the first point at lvl.8 or 9, but that’s unusual. Likely grunts will hit the table 11+ and post mortem will make killing them that much easier. Not only that, if your opponent wants to fight against you on the lane,… well, you will just deal a shit load more damage, it’s awesome, it’s that cool, its ownage x2.

Why stats? Well, more HP, more Armor, more att. Speed, more regens, more damage. What other skill gives you all that at the same time? So, go all the way.

You can buy stats earlier, and delay Spit or Ooze, your choice. Well, adapting to your opponent is the ultimate strategy, so you should adapt whenever you have to.

The MAIN thing about this build is to know how to “spend” your mana, if you can’t manage mana, this build will blow, pick another build and don’t trash my build because you can’t manage mana.

I’m open for discussion.

I don’t know if some1 posted a build like this one b4, if it did, my bad. I don’t read guides in a long time.

Ps: People say UB is a Noob DG… well, a Noob with this build will sux so much. This is an expert build, yeah I know, elitist, blah blah blah, get over it.

Ps.2: If you have the money to buy items outside of the ones I listed, you are doing it wrong (or very good, because you killed every1 30x). You don’t need/want items other than the ones listed, everything else goes to the citadel, or to your team8s, you will most likely get the kills, share the gold brother, it’s a multiplayer game that you want to win, right?

Ps.3: Buy Flag Locks when needed.

Ps.4: Buy counters items as needed.

Ps.5: On the next post, my m8 and his Sedna build that keeps me alive. Enjoy.

Final Ps: If you lose with this build (mine and my m8s), and you didn’t faced a minion build, well, practice some more.

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July 27, 2009 12:50:50 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

 

Hello all.

I’m used to play the Sedna that used to keep this guy Alive and make sure we win. So, b4 we get to skill I must say that the goal for this build is to Keep your partner alive and win the game in a 2v2 Prision game. In fact I use 2 builds one with pounce and one without it, but I use pounce just when it is an easy win game, to make the game faster so I’m posting just the expert build to play against PROs.

 

1 – Heal

2 – Healing wind

3 – Inner grace

4 – Heal

5 – Healing wind II

6 – Inner grace II

7 – Heal III

8 – Inner grace III / Counter Healing*

9 – Silence

10 – Heal IV

11 – Silence

12 – Magnificent Presence.

13 – Magnificent Presence II.

14 – Save

15 – Silence III, Magnificent Presence III.

16-20 – Whatever man (you can get pounce then, Yetis if you want it…. The game is already over) .

*If you have 1 or 2 opponents with monks, early priests and such than CH is a Must, most sednas we faced never get this skill and this is a gamebreaking skill.

Favor:   BotF

 

Why not pounce? It is simple like this: If you engage and don’t have enough mana to heal trough all the battle you get wiped.  In a battle that takes time to be won, lets say 1min, healing wind will heal you and your m8 by 720 each. If you pounce twice you spend 800 mana that can cost you one or two heals and will make 800 damage. If you are facing a PRO Sedna,Oak,QoT you will not interrupt their heal-shield, they know what they are doing. Silence is a way better interrupt.

Why not Yetis? You’re joking right? hehehehehhehe

 

Itens: Monks for start

Other slots: Vlemish, Batlecrown, unbreakable, nimoth

High Priests and Siege III it’s welcome if you got the gold. If someone argues that High priest is an exploit buy them a sigil of vitality and “give” 500 gold to them. (It’s the difference in cost from High priest and Bishop)

 

Gameplay:

You don’t kill DGs. Its not your job. Your job is to make sure you two don’t die. You must not “Tank” other DGs, just run and let the UB hit the guy that’s chasing you and when the guy stop running after you… stop and come back to heal UB and hit UB’s Target.

Itens you have to know how and when use: rejuvenation elixir, sigil of vitality, Flag lock.

Tips: Zoom in every battle, pay close attention to your m8 health and don’t be in the same spot he is, you have to walk a little to make sure you can target him or you when needed.

 Don’t Spam heals if not engaged, let monks and aura do their jobs.

Stay close to your m8 for the aura and monks heal him but not close to take all AoE damage from opponents.

UB engage first, hit UB target. Don’t double 1v1.

The damage you can do it’s not important, you being alive is.

Let your m8 know when you’re out of mana.

With time you will know exactly when to cast silence… Believe me… you’ll know.

 

 

 

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July 27, 2009 1:02:33 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

When are you guys gonna play again, or is HoN that good lol

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July 27, 2009 1:46:36 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think its becoming pretty apparent from all the threads in this section that Sedna/Beast is a dominant 2v2 combination. My teammate and I use it as well, and have been slaying all comers, including several supposedly tough premade teams. While there isn't all that much room for variation I do detect some differences (in my opinion "deficiencies"), but of course I am biased for my own team's version. 

Specifically, I question UB taking stats 1-5 over DC 1 and IB 1-3 + Acclimation. Also I disagree with Sedna taking Grace 2-3, and skipping Pounce altogether. Disagree with taking Vlemish-Plenor as first two items, especially on Prison. Disagree with the general "attitude" of the Sedna build, she should be in there contributing, not just kiting around the backline waiting for UB to accomplish things. Also its impossible to acquire Silence 3 at level 12. Just saying. 

Overall its good though, I'm just nitpicking. Thanks for contributing to the DG community! +1 to you both. 

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July 27, 2009 2:02:48 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting SoFFacet,
Also its impossible to acquire Silence 3 at level 12. Just saying. 

Overall its good though, I'm just nitpicking. Thanks for contributing to the DG community! +1 to you both. 

LoL, post will be edited to put silence on lvl.15 thx for poiting it out.

Thx for the Karma.

About the Stats over DC and IB... well... that was the last thing I changed on the build, and why I think its an unique build. Course, Acclimation is awsome. But Stats 3, for me, is better than IB 3. That being said, 3 stats is better than 1 acclimation. Well, thats imho.

About DC. I explained this to Kassaum when I chosed for this build, and now for you and the community: If the guy is going to the crystal I'm fine with it, if I cant get the kill chasing, I'm fine with it. I have map control, and they sucefully scaped a very aggressive build, that wont happen 100% of the time. I may lose some kills, but I'll maximize damage output and guarantee map control, and with that, creep lane control.

 

Quoting Shade,
When are you guys gonna play again, or is HoN that good lol

 Yo brother, I just changed ISP, my ping is worse for now, maybe it gets better, hoppefuly. But HoN is a more competitive enviroment, and I'm such a noob there, so awsome to learn new stuff and struggle to become a noob (right now I'm EXTREME noob )

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July 27, 2009 2:19:21 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting SoFFacet,
I think its becoming pretty apparent from all the threads in this section that Sedna/Beast is a dominant 2v2 combination. My teammate and I use it as well, and have been slaying all comers, including several supposedly tough premade teams. While there isn't all that much room for variation I do detect some differences (in my opinion "deficiencies"), but of course I am biased for my own team's version. 

Specifically, I question UB taking stats 1-5 over DC 1 and IB 1-3 + Acclimation. Also I disagree with Sedna taking Grace 2-3, and skipping Pounce altogether. Disagree with taking Vlemish-Plenor as first two items, especially on Prison. Disagree with the general "attitude" of the Sedna build, she should be in there contributing, not just kiting around the backline waiting for UB to accomplish things. Also its impossible to acquire Silence 3 at level 12. Just saying. 

Overall its good though, I'm just nitpicking. Thanks for contributing to the DG community! +1 to you both. 

Got me on Silence lvl12.. its impossible, edited.

The itens are not in order, normally depend on the game, if Im taking lots of damage I go for Unbreakable first then Vlemish, Nimoth, usually I get Plenor as the third or fourth item getting even High priests b4. The attitude is imposed in fact cos they will target Sedna first if possible and just work better when our UB is the target, when I'm the target from both I run, If UB is targeting their suport and their dps/tank is targeting me I fight him till UB finish the other one(In aura range if possible) and then we wipe them or stay atacking UBs target.

There are a lot of factors and no one run always or fight always, but for the ones reading this and are not used to play UB+Sedna I can say that if you are in doubt you should be running.

 

The Inner grace I believe is a small drawback for me but since UB creep faster than Sedna usually he creeps and I go for flags and have to come back fast and since I dont pick pounce for mana issues I get HW and even IG cos they are passive.

 

 

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July 27, 2009 2:58:52 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Other reason to not get pounce and get IG and HW is Silence, Usually we face long fights and Pounce+Heal+Silence is too mana dependent.

But one thing I Know. Most people will hate this build and playing with it, its really frustrating to heal (work, work, work), get almost zero kills and be 100% support. I guess is like being the Goalkeeper in a Soccer game.

 

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July 27, 2009 7:56:05 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

UB needs a move speed item. Anyone with boots/anklet/wand will out-run him with this setup.
Maybe consider starting with Scaled Helm instead of Scalemail.
Otherwise you will be going back to base for mana, missing out on exp.

Sedna needs at least 1 point in pounce for an interrupt, always. You won't kill anyone otherwise because they can just potion or port away. 

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July 27, 2009 9:55:51 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

UB needs a move speed item. Anyone with boots/anklet/wand will out-run him with this setup.
Maybe consider starting with Scaled Helm instead of Scalemail.
Otherwise you will be going back to base for mana, missing out on exp.

Sedna needs at least 1 point in pounce for an interrupt, always. You won't kill anyone otherwise because they can just potion or port away. 


U presented a lot of facts, none of them is true.

I already stated on this topic why I don't care for speed. BUT if speed is something I need to counter on the match, and it really something I have to do to win the game I will keep the same setup and buy Wand of Speed. Usualy unacessary. Could you provide an opposing team which I will need speed to win the game?

No scaled helm, specially for scalemail, Scalemail is the best item on this game (I'm not being sarcastic). I have stated that this build is all around to manage your mana, and you tell me to use a mana helm. No my friend, you need to out live your opposition. If you go to crystal for a refil with this build, you are doing it wrong.

Pouce is not an interrupt. PERIOD. 1 second cast time is not an interrupt you can depend on. It costs you mana, and with heals and silence its something you cant afford early game. Silence is an interrupt. Grasp is. I have stated to use Grasp wisely, this falls in this category. This is an expert 2x build. We have played far to many games with it. I'm not saying I havent tested the build, I'm not saying it might work. It works. We played something like 50+ games with this setup. My stats shows it works.

We get sufficient kills. The game is not about Killing, its about not dying and map control. If by lvl.7 we get 2 kills, and they get zero kills, its usualy game over. You state that I will lose kills, and I say ok, if they are running to the crystal I have map control, I will win the game, and no, I wont be out of mana when they run home, at least, 80% of the time I wont need to go back. If I have, they will be at the crystal, and I'll be at the crystal. Sedna is capturing flags. If only one of them went back, well, sedna, with the build here presented, can out last any1, so we will have map control, and win the game. Those are complementary builds, though to every little detail.

 

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July 27, 2009 10:19:24 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

well argued by kokujin. although i think there are ways to counter this. but it's just my theoretical assumption. don't have a partner nor the opportunity to test it.

 

most people judge builds wihtout taking the related strategie into consideration. that's a big mistake! and many just build there dgs as dg killer, what only works against teams that share this attitude. edit: but this is by far the majority

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July 27, 2009 10:25:04 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting CelMare,
well argued by kokujin. although i think there are ways to counter this. but it's just my theoretical assumption. don't have a partner nor the opportunity to test it.


Thank you Sir. Yes, it might be counterable, its the beauty of the game

Quoting CelMare,
 

most people judge builds wihtout taking the related strategie into consideration. that's a big mistake! and many just build there dgs as dg killer, what only works against teams that share this attitude.

You Sir are completly right.

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July 27, 2009 10:59:46 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Kokujin,
I already stated on this topic why I don't care for speed. BUT if speed is something I need to counter on the match, and it really something I have to do to win the game I will keep the same setup and buy Wand of Speed. Usualy unacessary. Could you provide an opposing team which I will need speed to win the game?

This sentiment is correct in general, but I would contend that speed is also useful for tactical maneuvering during battle, not just chasing/running after a winner has been decided. I can see in your setup where you never run / Sedna always runs you wouldn't need it. However, other teams (say, ones that want to catch your Sedna because they don't feel like hitting your tank all game), could put move-speed to good use. Still, neither I nor my partner buy move speed items. I get Grace 1 to be at 6.3, and the only boost my partner uses is from IB. 

No scaled helm, specially for scalemail, Scalemail is the best item on this game (I'm not being sarcastic). I have stated that this build is all around to manage your mana, and you tell me to use a mana helm.

Scalemail, Banded Armor, and Scaled Helm are all really efficient items. Because they're so cheap, I recommend them as early items for almost every build in the game! 

One thing, though. You can shout "manage your mana" until you're blue in the face, the fact is that someone who manages their mana equally well but happens to have more mana items will be able to use their spells more often. So its not like they don't help, they do. The question is whether they help more than what you would get from a different item, which can be debated. Personally I don't see why one shouldn't buy a Scaled Helm early and sell it later, at the very least. 

Pouce is not an interrupt. PERIOD.

Ok now here is an area which I completely disagree. Pounce is a perfectly good interrupt, I interrupt things all the time with it, on purpose, in a wide range of situations. Because of its cast time its more of an anticipatory than reflexive interrupt, but rest assured it is an interrupt, and a damn good one. However, it takes an expert to use it as such. 

The game is not about Killing, its about not dying and map control

Completely agree, this is the basis of all of our strategies.

if they are running to the crystal I have map control, I will win the game, and no, I wont be out of mana when they run home, at least, 80% of the time I wont need to go back.

Sure, against bad players you can stay on the field indefinitely, defeat them in 8 straight fights without going back once, and hold all neutral flags all game. Any team can do that. But against good teams you can't do that. If you don't exhaust yourself, you'll lose to the team that did. Assuming they are using Sed/UB or LE/Oak or some other non-fail DG combination. 

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July 27, 2009 11:37:54 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

First, Thank You SoFFacet for post on this topic, I always enjoy your comments, they are 99% of the time very good and insightfull.

Quoting SoFFacet,



Quoting Kokujin,
reply 8
I already stated on this topic why I don't care for speed. BUT if speed is something I need to counter on the match, and it really something I have to do to win the game I will keep the same setup and buy Wand of Speed. Usualy unacessary. Could you provide an opposing team which I will need speed to win the game?


This sentiment is correct in general, but I would contend that speed is also useful for tactical maneuvering during battle, not just chasing/running after a winner has been decided. I can see in your setup where you never run / Sedna always runs you wouldn't need it. However, other teams (say, ones that want to catch your Sedna because they don't feel like hitting your tank all game), could put move-speed to good use. Still, neither I nor my partner buy move speed items. I get Grace 1 to be at 6.3, and the only boost my partner uses is from IB. 

I agree with you. And just complementig what you are saying I added on Ps.4: Buy counters when needed. Think this falls into that category, if you need it to win the game, buy it.

Quoting SoFFacet,

No scaled helm, specially for scalemail, Scalemail is the best item on this game (I'm not being sarcastic). I have stated that this build is all around to manage your mana, and you tell me to use a mana helm.


Scalemail, Banded Armor, and Scaled Helm are all really efficient items. Because they're so cheap, I recommend them as early items for almost every build in the game! 

One thing, though. You can shout "manage your mana" until you're blue in the face, the fact is that someone who manages their mana equally well but happens to have more mana items will be able to use their spells more often. So its not like they don't help, they do. The question is whether they help more than what you would get from a different item, which can be debated. Personally I don't see why one shouldn't buy a Scaled Helm early and sell it later, at the very least. 


True. If you need the scaled helm, buy it. But not as a start, the start is Scalemail + Banded. You can go back and buy scaled helm latter on, and in a good time to do so. Why I don't do it? Because usually I save money already for Unbreakable or Vlemish. Usually Unbreakable first. 1500 gold. Think its cool.

Quoting SoFFacet,
Pouce is not an interrupt. PERIOD.


Ok now here is an area which I completely disagree. Pounce is a perfectly good interrupt, I interrupt things all the time with it, on purpose, in a wide range of situations. Because of its cast time its more of an anticipatory than reflexive interrupt, but rest assured it is an interrupt, and a damn good one. However, it takes an expert to use it as such. 



Well, u got me here. Since I created a topic about "expert" builds and all, I have to say you are right. We adapted our play stile so we have interrupts (silence and grasp) so we don't need pounce, and it comes with the plus side of being a more "mana free" build.

Quoting SoFFacet,

The game is not about Killing, its about not dying and map control


Completely agree, this is the basis of all of our strategies.



Amen, DG community, this is the ultimate strategy.


Quoting SoFFacet,
if they are running to the crystal I have map control, I will win the game, and no, I wont be out of mana when they run home, at least, 80% of the time I wont need to go back.


Sure, against bad players you can stay on the field indefinitely, defeat them in 8 straight fights without going back once, and hold all neutral flags all game. Any team can do that. But against good teams you can't do that. If you don't exhaust yourself, you'll lose to the team that did. Assuming they are using Sed/UB or LE/Oak or some other non-fail DG combination. 

Bolded just for some LoL'ing moment, so true so true.

About the other thing u mentioned. True, but than again, I will only go back when they go back. If they stay I will stay. Most likely. But you are right.

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July 27, 2009 4:46:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Stats I think are inferior compared to working towards acclimation.  If the game does go to the point where level 15 combats matter, there is basically no stat boost you can get that is better than acclimations damage reduction.  And heck, the inner beast bonus' aren't that bad.

 

I also think that diseased claws level 1 is worth more than a single point in stats.

About BotF vs Blade of the Serpent, I agree that Blood is better on prison.  Fact is, you win prison in the first 4 levels worth of game play, especially 2v2, and rationing spit and having more HP is significantly better than having more mana... especially since you only want the mana basically turns 5+.

 

The one thing I do think you are missing, though, is an escape ability from grasp.  I have tested it and yes, if you activate an ability while grasping someone, they REMAIN STUNNED for the full duration, and you are free to move.  Blade is a good activation to break grasp, but so is wand of speed, or even a healing potion. Turning off ooze is not bad in a pinch, but has its own problem (no ooze for 2 seconds).

In Sedna/Beast combo's, I think sedna needs the inner grace more than in other combo's. I would take the first point as early as level 2. Sedna staying alive is really the lynch pin of the strategy afterall. I also think Silence 2 is far better than healing 4. +33% silence duration is suhweetness.

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July 27, 2009 6:47:21 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Nice beast strat...   not spitting early is a good way to make people not realize you have it...

 

Won a 3v2+AI thanks to plenty of kills as beast

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July 27, 2009 7:13:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Zechnophobe,
Stats I think are inferior compared to working towards acclimation.  If the game does go to the point where level 15 combats matter, there is basically no stat boost you can get that is better than acclimations damage reduction.  And heck, the inner beast bonus' aren't that bad.

Lets say IB lvl.3 gives +10% DPS, and +10% Movement.

Now, Stats lvl.3, gives you 345 HP, 0,64 HP/S, 315 Mana, 0,96 Mana/S, 75 armor, and 6% attack speed (or, as with IB, +6% DPS) AND, 18 weapon damage, Since you usually deals something like 250 damage, that means something like, +7,2% damage.

As you say, game is usually over before lvl.15, so, b4 lvl.15 Stats tops IB, at least, on my twisted mind

In other words. IB lvl.3 is like having Boots of Speedy + Gauntlets of Brutality

Stats Lvl.3 is like having Improved Gauntlets of Brutality + Inferior Banded armor + Inferior Scalemail + Inferior Scaled Helm

Hmmmm... I will keep my build

Ps. Yes, acclimation is awsome. But my build try to make lvl.15+ game irrelevant, so I figured a more cost effective skills distribution.

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July 27, 2009 8:12:18 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

My point really is, that I think the stats ends up being a 'win more' mechanic. What if the game ISN'T over by level 15, because the opponents are of equal quality? Either way these three levels worth of skills are pretty minimal in usefuless, I'd rather at least be ready for something awesome at level 15 than otherwise.

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July 27, 2009 9:35:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

In Sedna/Beast combo's, I think sedna needs the inner grace more than in other combo's. I would take the first point as early as level 2. Sedna staying alive is really the lynch pin of the strategy afterall. I also think Silence 2 is far better than healing 4. +33% silence duration is suhweetness.

Im glad you like IG too. I used to get IG at lvl2 and HW at lvl3 but often we get lvl2 in a fight or going for one and then I try to get HW and push then back. We all know how important is to win the first encounter in prision.

Not pick all healing ASAP is not an option for our build, UB use Ooze and take loads of damage. I tried a couple of times to pick silence ASAP but never worked, its too mana expensive for low lvl.

In defense of UB build. He used to do normal UB with IB and DC and we won and everything worked well, but when UB get this build I could feel it... Its way better

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July 27, 2009 9:40:09 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Zechnophobe,
My point really is, that I think the stats ends up being a 'win more' mechanic. What if the game ISN'T over by level 15, because the opponents are of equal quality? Either way these three levels worth of skills are pretty minimal in usefuless, I'd rather at least be ready for something awesome at level 15 than otherwise.

True, and I faced opponents of equal quality. I won. Well, I'll let you judge if they are/were good:

Zyvvrict and Foster_21

I have a screen shot of the score war, I will post it here, and sorry zy and foster if u guys fell I'm doing something wrong, I will remove the printscreen if you guys want me to. But that was the best game I have ever played, epic and amizing match, against the best players I faced in a 2x2 game.

 

 

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July 28, 2009 12:28:13 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

seems like a fundamentally good strategy. i have two comments though.

 

1) Beast build probably would benefit from Diseased Claws 1 at level 2 or 3. the first point matters the most by a huge amount. its enough to guarantee that anyone without serious amounts of move speed (a Swift Anklet or better) just can't run away from you no matter what. 

 

2) Sedna build is a specifically support oriented build so Inner Grace seems less good. you're not so interested in chasing for kills so the move speed seems meh. I can relate to taking the first point in IG since its the most efficient but I would probably wait off on ranks 2 and 3 and use those points to get Silence earlier, and maybe rank 1 of Pounce as well. 

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July 28, 2009 11:09:01 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting transitive,
seems like a fundamentally good strategy. i have two comments though.


 Thank you


Quoting transitive,

1) Beast build probably would benefit from Diseased Claws 1 at level 2 or 3. the first point matters the most by a huge amount. its enough to guarantee that anyone without serious amounts of move speed (a Swift Anklet or better) just can't run away from you no matter what. 


 I agree with the benefits, but UB starts with 6.3. No1 starts higher. So, to become faster than my UB he has to sacrifice something for speed. Since my build is pure damage and tanking capability I will become more of a threat than if he was stacking health or armor. He might get away, but if he starts to run back to late, even a little, he is dead. Spit is ranged, sedna will be able to follow and there is always the good old Universal Gadged.

Everyone is to preocupied about killing with IB and DC, I'm more focused on staying alive and map control. With IB and DC is no diferent, the guy will run one time or the other, if its to late you get a kill, if its not to late he lives, the only diference is that with IB and DC "to late" happens earlier than with my build. And I accept the trade-off.


Quoting transitive,

2) Sedna build is a specifically support oriented build so Inner Grace seems less good. you're not so interested in chasing for kills so the move speed seems meh. I can relate to taking the first point in IG since its the most efficient but I would probably wait off on ranks 2 and 3 and use those points to get Silence earlier, and maybe rank 1 of Pounce as well. 

We have tested, the 2 alternatives you are sugesting. Both skills would drive to a lacking mana situation.

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July 28, 2009 12:12:36 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Kokujin,
We have tested, the 2 alternatives you are sugesting. Both skills would drive to a lacking mana situation.

Pounce 1 vs Inner Grace 2 is still the one thing that bothers me most about this build. Inner Grace 2 does almost *nothing*. So little, in fact, that even if I never use Pounce once during the early or midgame, I still would have no regrets about having taken it because there is always the chance I might have been able to prevent a Potion, Teleport, Lock, or Gadget, count the recharge of a Heal, anticipate an Oak's first Surge, or finish a runner's last bit of health. Pounce 1 is cheap and is *always* worth it if it stops any one of those things. 

I don't advocate Pouncing to nuke things on recharge, least of all if I was facing your team since you can easily heal through it. But having it as a trump card is a lot more attractive to me than Inner Grace 2, which does basically nothing.  

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July 28, 2009 12:30:41 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting SoFFacet,



Quoting Kokujin,
reply 20
We have tested, the 2 alternatives you are sugesting. Both skills would drive to a lacking mana situation.


Pounce 1 vs Inner Grace 2 is still the one thing that bothers me most about this build. Inner Grace 2 does almost *nothing*. So little, in fact, that even if I never use Pounce once during the early or midgame, I still would have no regrets about having taken it because there is always the chance I might have been able to prevent a Potion, Teleport, Lock, or Gadget, count the recharge of a Heal, anticipate an Oak's first Surge, or finish a runner's last bit of health. Pounce 1 is cheap and is *always* worth it if it stops any one of those things. 

I don't advocate Pouncing to nuke things on recharge, least of all if I was facing your team since you can easily heal through it. But having it as a trump card is a lot more attractive to me than Inner Grace 2, which does basically nothing.  

Hmmmm, interesting. Very good points. We have to retest and adapt again I guess. Thx SoFFacet for explaining once again, I belive you are right.

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July 28, 2009 12:34:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Kokujin,
Hmmmm, interesting. Very good points. We have to retest and adapt again I guess. Thx SoFFacet for explaining once again, I belive you are right.

Ha. If our teams ever play each other we both may regret giving away so much in this thread... a little.

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July 28, 2009 12:47:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting SoFFacet,



Quoting Kokujin,
reply 22
Hmmmm, interesting. Very good points. We have to retest and adapt again I guess. Thx SoFFacet for explaining once again, I belive you are right.


Ha. If our teams ever play each other we both may regret giving away so much in this thread... a little.

Ha. True, and I would like to play against your premade, sounds like an epic game would unfold, and winning or loosing its always awsome to have an epic game. I'm the one usually hosting 2x2 with Kassaum, drop in anytime. And my 3x3 premade games usually is pacov hosting, as with the 4x4, would be pacov as well. Any1 is more than welcome to face our premades

Hell, now you guys even know our strats, como on board, check it out yourselves

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September 14, 2009 5:10:14 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Zombie threading this one - bump.  Great post and good discussion including acclimation, etc. 

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