Demigod weekend update

By Frogboy on July 18, 2009 1:00:02 AM from

Greetings!

So, what’s been happening in the world of Demigod this past week?

Gas Powered Games has been working on the demo version of Demigod. There’s been a number of iterations to nail it down to be as small as possible a download while at the same time enough of a demo to give players a good idea of what the game is like.

Meanwhile, we’ve all been working hard on some issues that I know only bug a minority of the community but bug me a great deal as being something so blatant that I made it a very high priority: The stats.

The concede option introduced in v1.1 apparently did some bad things with the stats. This week, they’ve gone back and forth every day on fixing this. Yes, I know everyone has their own wish list of what they’d like to see next but the stats were something that really bugged me.

As of today, they have a new build they think they’re happy with. We will not be resetting favor points but we might reset the win/loss stuff because frankly, it’s fubarred IMO. I know a lot of you don’t care about that kind of thing but frankly, the stats not being robust is an embarrassment and not tolerable. It’s a classic case of too many chefs in the kitchen.

The demo is, by far, the biggest thing being worked on. We all agree it should have gone out sooner but life is what it is and we don’t always get what we want.

Once the demo goes out (next week I hope but no promises as every time I try to predict something it ends up blowing up) we can get back to addressing fundamentals.

The #1 thing on my list are getting more demigods out there. Everyone who reads these forums knows my position. Lots of new demigods, often. The issue there is that Demigods are, well, expensive to make but as far as I’m concerned, 2 free ones were promised.

The question beyond that is more murky. My opinion is that I’d like to see additional demigods released for like $9 for 2. BUT at the same time, I’d like to see an SDK kit so that modders can make demigods too that they can give away or what have you. There are some complexities since the demigods make use of Granny so we need a way for people to import and export these without having to buy a Granny license. I’ll keep you updated on how that part goes.

But Stardock (where I work – the North American publisher) and Gas Powered Games (the developer of Demigod) agree that modding is going to be crucial to Demigod’s long-term future. So it’s only then a question of how much modding and how soon really.

There are plenty of other things that need to be looked at sooner rather than later. I’d like to see path finding improved, AI improved, and other item tweaks. My understanding is that the pathfinding is done in LUA (as opposed to say A-star in C++).

Now, that said, if anyone here has a mod or a change to the game they think is good, post it in the forums. I have found GPG to be very open about integrating things into the game that make the game better.

So that’s where we’re at as the weekend starts.

Cheers!

+912 Karma | 81 Replies

Thanks Frogboy. More dg's is the way to go.

$9 for 2 Demigods is a fair price.

Quoting Spooky,

reply 22

Other games are irrelevant.

On the contrary, competition is one of the main determining factors behind how products fare.

If you (will) like those two other games more than Demigod, why would you care about custom content in Demigod in the first place?

I didn't say I will like those two other games more than Demigod. I said many people, including myself, will give them a try at the very least. Some of those people may remain there, and stop playing Demigod. In this sense, the more content there is in Demigod, the less people will be willing to try alternatives. If you're already really really happy with Product A, why would you want to try Product B?

I want more content in demigod because I don't want the community - which is already small - to get even smaller. It already takes up to 10-15 minutes to get enough people for games on some nights.

9 dollars is definetely a fair price to pay for additional content. Remember guys, this game has NO SUBSCRIPTION FEE. So there is no steady income they get from the established community(that would be us). Extra revenue would be generated through the DLC which is currently being stated at or around 2 new demigods for 9 bucks.
Or they could just put out 4 demi's and a few maps in an expansion pack for 25 bucks. I'd pay for that too because I want to support the company that maintains the game.

Remember, this is not WOW and the bottomless pockets of Blizzard are no where near this game. Asking for free additional content is really asking them to shoot themselves in the foot financially speaking.

This is great and all....

but where is the team automatch...?

how can you make a team game like this, and fail to put in a team automatch???

I absolutely love this news, seeing as this is really the first response we have had to the Granny 3D exporter questions. I hope that all goes well and that GPG is able to give us something that we can use to mod the heck out of the game. I am totally wanting to make some video tutorials if we end up getting this stuff.

For the DLC thing, people generally get scared of high prices like $9.00. I think that the least that could be done is that make every single demigod that gets released have a single cost ($4.50 in this case) so that people can simple buy what they want, and perhaps have demigod packs which can reduce some of that cost. Well, I am sure that those details are totally up in the air, so I am not really too worried about it just yet.

Gah, now I am feeling reinvigorated! I can't wait!

I wouldn't have much problems with having to pay for new demigods but would like to suggest the following:

1. Make it, that people who haven't purchased new demigods can play against people who have. As long as the demigods are balanced against existing ones (and not made stronger to make everybody buying them) it should be completely fine to play with existing ones against new ones.

2. Restrict new Demigods to online play only but give them to everybody for free in SP. This way people could try out new demigods and decide which pack they want to pay for. I wouldn't like to pay for new demigods just to realize that I don't like them and will never play them. This might boost sales as well, as people would not risk paying for something that they might not like. Instead the might realize that it's really fun to play with a specific demigod and therefor would want to buy it. As Demigod is very much based on multiplayer this should not effect sales negatively but rather increase sales of new demigods due to the advertising effect.

So you want to release a demo for a team based game without offering the ability to play as a team?

Releasing a demo without team-pantheon or team-skirmish games will not encourage people to buy the game.
They will join games and get stomped by premades or friends... hate the game and leave.

This game is designed for premades... and 3 month after release there is no automatch functionality for them. Why?

Quoting LordPoekelfleisch,

reply 6

I wouldn't have much problems with having to pay for new demigods but would like to suggest the following:

1. Make it, that people who haven't purchased new demigods can play against people who have. As long as the demigods are balanced against existing ones (and not made stronger to make everybody buying them) it should be completely fine to play with existing ones against new ones.

This is so so so so true. This HAS to be the case. Just make the Demigod a shadow in the selection menu if a person has not unlocked them or something. It HAS TO BE THE SAME EXE or else it will split the community.

Quoting hoogamaphone,

reply 21

I think new maps are WAY more important than demigods (and probably cheaper to produce, because there is a lot less balancing to be done on them). I still haven't really played a lot with all the demigods, but I've played cataract and prison to death. Since most games played are 2v2/3v3/4v4, we need more maps that cater to those size teams. Adding new scenery always breathes fresh new life into a game.

I agree with this. I haven't explored all of the different demigods yet and I think most who are clamoring for more demigods probably skipped a few along the way. More maps should be a priority, or a map editor. Whatever is easier or cheaper to do, I suppose.

There are a couple of important points I'd like to make.

The main "competition" for demigod is DOTA. DOTA is only still around due to regular Free updates. Yes there is a donation system in place for people that have the means and wish to help support the mod. Trying to charge people for new content will kill the community and the game will have little hope for the long term. Take a look at the guys over at VALVE. They have some of the most renowned and loyal communties around. Not because they try to milk money out of their existing community, but by offering long standing support and updates for their games. You will get more people buying the game as time goes on and thats what makes a long term community. It may not seem like the profitable thing to do immedietly, but everyone I've spoken to in my social network would sooner buy a 40$ game than pay for new content on an existing one.

Its also crucial that some means of team play is available for friends; but I'm sure that will be taken care of.

Your making people pay for demigods now? I'm sorry but that will ruin the game in my option. It feels like you guys just gave up after you have seen the competition like Heroes of Newerth or League of Legends. What happened to you guys supporting the game for many years to come? Honestly - why do we need to pay for extra heroes when we bought the game already. I havn't played the game in like 2 months just because I have been waiting for new demigods. It's boring without new demigods. Now I have to pay for them? Lol yeah real attraction there.

This is just Frogboy's opinion and not something that is guaranteed to happen. The first two Demigods will be released for free.

Frogboy, my apologies but I will not buy the proposed 2 for $9 pack.

My real preference would be that Stardock + GPG continue to support the game and to therefore continue to keep both casual and hardcore players interested in the game and therefore for such players to continue to be interested in it and continue to interest those they know in the game and... Particularly with Heroes of Newarth and League of Legends on the horizon, both of which will pack a fair amount of heroes and will draw a lot of DotA players and swing them away from Demigod.

Of course, with Stardock already having committed a sizable amount of effort and cash into fixing Demigod's online aspects (complain that they never should have had to and that we shouldn't be bearing the costs because of that and you certainly can and I won't stop you but I am merely stating what seems a reality), my expectations for Stardock being willing to invest more in Demigod via new demigods have dropped and Frogboy seems to be making it rather clear currently that it's either a matter of taking what we get or gettng nothing. Of course, I totally should not point out that Stardock has a chance here though to shove Valve's face in the dirt by supporting Demigod in a way that Valve has failed to support L4D.

Anyway, a third option might be good. Since if you go forth with creating these new demigods, you're going to do x amount of effort and you're going to get y amount for each. But at the moment, you have a lot of people such as myself who aren't going to spend y for what you're offering. But for a different y...

I bought Sins of a Solar Empire: Entrenchment. Thus far, I am happy with it. It has nicely improved my experience with the game, and as a third of an expansion pack it works quite nicely. Something similar for Demigod could also work quite well. Three packs of four Demigods for $10 each with an eventual $30 retail XP with all three packs combined (and a renewed hype/marketing push that also brings to light all of the other, free changes you guys will have brought to Demigod by the) would be quite a bit more intriguing. Taking another page from SoaSE, turn each of the three packs into some kind of theme (each pack should have two generals and two assassins, evenly split between light and dark- don't really recommend making light and dark into themes, lol)- be it an artistic theme, a gameplay theme, whatever you want that you feel will interest people.

The other upside of the themed pack perspective is that it can be used as a template for modders to create such free packs of their own which may well make integrating those easier as well as nudging modders into focusing on balancing their demigods a bit more as the point would be less to put forth one super awesome uber demigod but rather a set of four demigods that are all equally viable against each other and quite hopefully against more than just that.

Anyway, though that works out to $2 less per a demigod for Stardock and GPG, I would buy such packs (and indeed, if they are all well-done, I would buy all such packs for the "full XP") whereas I will buy none of your 2 for $9 packs. I cannot speak for others, but I shall let them speak for themselves. My aim here is merely to grant Stardock and GPG additional information on where their customers stand so that they can make more informed decisions.

You mean we have to pay for new demigod's?

Thats quite strange dont you think... We paid for a game we still need to pay for?

That means you made the game in a hurry and it's not evan done yet.

It's a bad idea to make us pay for more demogod's! wait for a proper exansion and we talk again!

Paying evan more for this game is rediculas! I loved this game and now it's starting to make no sence...

Rethink your ideas gies.

Other Priorities - MAPs, MAPs, and MAPs - please, AI is another biggie given their influence on Pantheon. Also, balance - wonder why the Darkside wins nearly every pantheon. Can anybody say Beast and Erebus (they are way too powerful). Just my two-cents.

Quoting Spooky,

reply 14

In my opinion, Demigod does not need new content at all. A good game lives on its repetition, replayability, not on new content. A game that needs new content in order to be playable in the long term, is not a good (multiplayer) game, since it can't live on its own.

Very wise and true, good to see people understand that replayability cannot be altered by more of the same (linear) content updates.

Quoting Ferminal,

reply 16

Very wise and true, good to see people understand that replayability cannot be altered by more of the same (linear) content updates.

What!? Team Fortress 2's updates have vastly changed how much I play it. Gold Rush has very quickly become my favorite FPS map of all-time (and that's saying a fair bit) and Payload is easily my favorite TF2 game type. It has accounted significantly for my continued interest in the game.

Similarly, given the nature of heroes in Demigod as borderline classes in some respects, there is room for GPG to introduce something quite radical and different there. Remember that even if you're not using one of the new demigods, its mere presence does change the game. That, and I still have not really "bedded down" with any of the current demigods so there is always the possibility that I will find something among the new Demigods much as I did with Terrans in StarCraft.

Thanks for the update, froggy.

I would pay $9 for two new demigods, as long as the first two are free and are released some time in the near-ish future, as was promised.

Well i understand it take time and money to develop new demigods, but i agree with the fact that will not help to build a community.

Who will want to buy the game after that, when he know he will buy a game incomplete.

I think its a mistake to do so, even if $9 arent much, people will feel stolen.

But maybe i havent read well and Demigod was a MMO... *with less characters and maps than a MMO *

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 22

Regarding extra Demigods:

I'd like to see modders being able to make more demigods.

But if you expect GPG (or Stardock for that matter) to put guys on making them, $9 for 2 is likely your best case scenario. So if the feeling that they should be a couple bucks (or free) indefinitely is widespread then you just won't see those demigods.

Although the basic economics stack that way it actually doesn't work that way. Take Warcraft III - comes up time and time again- in the top 10 of xfire's most played daily games. Mostly this is due to its modability and additionals such as DoTa - modders created the maps and the heroes and in came the revenue for Blizzard.

** should say I would be up for 9$ for the DG's regardless of whether modders created additional ones as well, would like to see more maps included as well though

I fail to understand wy :

A your making a demo months after the game has been released, and from what i read this is your #1 priority?

B Its a harsh reality but people now have alternivtive ways to try a game out, you know, its a fact so wy waste your manpower on a demo.

C If you lads need cash for new contenct, well i guess that the Fotm, Xbox does it, so wy not you guys. But PLEASE dont let players create DG. I have yet to find a game where player created content didnt bring HUGE inbalance. Players tend to abuse the power of creation to farm gold, favor tickets chocobo's whatever...

my 2 (euro)cents.

I agree with UncleanXuch,

Peeps just dont balance things out (There are exceptions to the rule) Its like the WOW crack servers. I play retail wow and it took me almost 5 months to get to lv.80, a guy I know at work plays on crack server and he reached lv. 80 in 1 weekend. Wheres the fun in that. The peeps tweak the crack server so badly. They use speedhacks and all other bots.

Just lets the pros do these things. I hate imbalances

Long Live the OAK

Also when they are pirating the game they are not seeing the multiplayer functionality but rather the very poor ai so they really do not get a feel of how good the game is

Tals

Quoting Talsworthy,

reply 23

I totally disagree. You all maybe happy to illegally pirate a game and call it a demo but I and I suspect the majority of people are not. I have friends who want to try this game but are waiting on that demo to decide.

Also when they are pirating the game they are not seeing the multiplayer functionality but rather the very poor ai so they really do not get a feel of how good the game is

Tals

I like demo's but i think its strange to launch one when the game is two months out and having ALLOT of issue's. The dev is posting that most of there energy is going to the demo.

Wy dont you let your friends play at your game if they wanne try it out? Im not saying im pro piracy, but be realistic, allot of people who are interested in Dg have allot of ways of having a look/try at the game. I mean in game footage at youtube, reviews, and yes torrents for some. I dont think a demo is worth that much at this point, while improving the current game would yield more happy gamers wich spread the word wich leads to sales as well, since thats the reason for a demo, hoping for more sales. This is just my opinion, what do i know

Demo's rarely have a multiplayer, so i dont know if that is a good argument. But Dg demo might have it.

Regards

[removed]

You would be amazed if you look at those free to play mmo where you play for free but pay for items.

People play $15 for a digital pet and, $50 for a name change and more crazy shit. Allot of people, including me, wont mind 9$ for new content, as long as its nicely balanced and well implemented.

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Demigod weekend update