Structures need to give favor

By on July 13, 2009 10:46:57 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Pyradius

Join Date 09/2007
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Okay, so I just won a single player game (conquest) on hard mode, and Erebus (my enemy) had 5 less points than me at the end.  We had fairly similar stats as far as flag caps, damage and whatnot, yet I had 35! structures destroyed (0 for the AI on my team).

Why is it that I get no credit for the work to take out that many structures, leading to our victory?

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July 13, 2009 10:53:59 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

They...do.

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July 13, 2009 10:56:55 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

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July 14, 2009 12:07:39 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Look at your breakdown of the favor...there is favor awarded...it's called....Structures.

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July 14, 2009 5:19:38 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thank you mr snake for biting this unobservant fella.  Hope he learned to pay attention!

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July 14, 2009 12:01:19 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think the favor system needs to be reworked. It's somewhat ridiculous to award people based on "most" kills, "most" creeps, "most" buildings, etc. because it means that even if you do really really well, you won't get jack if other people did better than you. You will end up with very little favor despite the fact that you made a significant contribution to your team's victory.

There have been games where I was on the losing team and ended up with almost as much, if not more, favor than everyone in the winning team. This is pretty dumb.

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July 14, 2009 9:02:23 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I guess I am missing something, because I see no detailed breakdown of how much favor is awarded and what % it factors in to your final score.  What I DO know is that I had near identical stats to an NPC that lost to me, aside from the fact that I had 35 structures destroyed to his 0, and I had a minimal amount more favor than him.

I am well aware that Structures is listed of the victory screen.  It either needs to be reworked or buffed in how much additional favor it provides.

If the "awards" are indeed static bonus amounts where only the victor of their respective category gets favor and everyone else gets 0, they should consider switching more to a percentage system where you get bonus favor equal to the amount you contributed.

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July 14, 2009 9:04:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Enraged_Camel,

If the bonus favor is awarded based purely on what you get in the "awards" section, then this definitely should be re-worked.  There is much more synergy around grunt killing (damage, gold, levels which means pvp superiority which also means likely to have the most player kills) than there is around structure destroying.

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July 14, 2009 10:46:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Enraged_Camel,
I think the favor system needs to be reworked. It's somewhat ridiculous to award people based on "most" kills, "most" creeps, "most" buildings, etc. because it means that even if you do really really well, you won't get jack if other people did better than you. You will end up with very little favor despite the fact that you made a significant contribution to your team's victory.

There have been games where I was on the losing team and ended up with almost as much, if not more, favor than everyone in the winning team. This is pretty dumb.

Agreed I'd rather see a tiny bit of favor awarded everytime you perform the actions that make up the endgame awards.  Something like 1 favor for every [insert number here] creeps/creepwaves killed and such.

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July 14, 2009 10:58:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

They have all the data they need.  They can pool every piece of data (player kills, damage done, etc etc) and then assign a % based on how much you did, rather than an all or none bonus system.

I kill 20% of the grunts, I get 20% of the Favor for that category.

The current system basically heavily favors one style of play, and it's not the most tactical.  It punishes the players who go after objectives (putting themselves at risk on the offensive) and rewards those who farm grunts near their bases.

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July 14, 2009 11:01:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Pyradius:

At the end of a match, there are two tabs at the bottom of the end results screen.  I forget what they are named.  One of them has a breakdown of who earned what favor accomplishment.  There are, among other things, gold, kills, kill streak, damage, reinforcements (aka creep killed), and so on.

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July 14, 2009 11:09:05 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Yea I know about the awards tab, what I am saying that using an all or none bonus system for each category is a pretty bad way to handle it, imo.

Figure this:

Regulus (me) damage - 440k

Erebus (ai) damage - 450k

Erebus takes the Favor - 50 points

---------------------------------------

Regulus structures - 35

Erebus structures - 0

Regulus takes the favor - 50 points

---------------------------------------

Regulus grunts - 400

Erebus grunts - 420

Erebus takes the favor - 50 points

---------------------------------------

Erebus total - 100 pts

Regulus total - 50 pts

I did everything virtually as well as Erebus while doing something infinitely more valuable than destroying grunts (something your auto-attacking towers will handle), putting myself in a riskier situation, earning less xp and gold by doing so, yet he earns more favor than I do in the end.

I should add that the most strategic options are the least rewarding.  The way that I play is I almost exclusively focus on destroying my enemy's structures and I upgrade my citadel.  Both of these "award" categories do not synergize with other awards.  In fact they punish you and make you less likely to achieve those other awards.

A player that focuses purely on themself and grunt farming will naturally come by more xp, gold, damage done, and kills.

Punish Tactical Play

+

Reward Selfish Play

=

Bad Reward System

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July 15, 2009 2:35:21 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Yawn? I'm sorry, but this isn't an MMO, or persistent world game where you are meant to give a smooth curve of awards out to everyone. Favor is meant to be little bits of extra award to people who did well in different ways. If you really feel you got gyped out of favor, play another game now and then, instead of complaining here, it doesn't take that long to accrue.

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July 15, 2009 8:37:46 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Enraged_Camel,
I think the favor system needs to be reworked. It's somewhat ridiculous to award people based on "most" kills, "most" creeps, "most" buildings, etc. because it means that even if you do really really well, you won't get jack if other people did better than you. You will end up with very little favor despite the fact that you made a significant contribution to your team's victory.

There have been games where I was on the losing team and ended up with almost as much, if not more, favor than everyone in the winning team. This is pretty dumb.

Actually think about a race, even if you perform really really well, if you didn't get first place you don't get the gold medal. Sorry, it's about being the best in that category.

Also it is possible to make people who performed equally as well to both gain the favor points for that isn't it? ie Kills, Deaths, Gold, Assists.

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July 15, 2009 11:56:28 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

[quote who="[TAI]Elixir" reply="13" id="2303302"]
Quoting Enraged_Camel, reply 5I think the favor system needs to be reworked. It's somewhat ridiculous to award people based on "most" kills, "most" creeps, "most" buildings, etc. because it means that even if you do really really well, you won't get jack if other people did better than you. You will end up with very little favor despite the fact that you made a significant contribution to your team's victory.

There have been games where I was on the losing team and ended up with almost as much, if not more, favor than everyone in the winning team. This is pretty dumb.

Actually think about a race, even if you perform really really well, if you didn't get first place you don't get the gold medal. Sorry, it's about being the best in that category.

Also it is possible to make people who performed equally as well to both gain the favor points for that isn't it? ie Kills, Deaths, Gold, Assists.[/quote]

This is not a race. It's a team-game. A race-like implementation encourages selfish behavior. Always trying to get the killing blows, always going after creep waves and buildings even if it may be against the best interest of your team. Stuff like that.

Why would I try to win the match if killing lots of creeps and destroying lots of buildings will most likely yield me just as much favor as the other team?

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July 15, 2009 12:04:20 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I agree that selfish behaviour is a hindrance to a team-game such as this one, however someone does get an award and someone does not. Maybe on your team, maybe not. So in that sense, it is a rest because the best performer in that category is rewarded with that award.

Also some races are team based. Some car races are team based etc. For example I lay off some kills and let my teammate regulus get the kills so he can get that award and vice versa for if I get more flags etc. I mean, that's a bit extreme for favor (I don't really play for it).

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July 15, 2009 12:14:58 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Why is favor based on awards in the first place?

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July 15, 2009 1:04:13 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Zechnophobe,
Yawn? I'm sorry, but this isn't an MMO, or persistent world game where you are meant to give a smooth curve of awards out to everyone. Favor is meant to be little bits of extra award to people who did well in different ways. If you really feel you got gyped out of favor, play another game now and then, instead of complaining here, it doesn't take that long to accrue.

Since when is a smooth curve a system exclusive to MMO's?  I'd say any developer worth their salt would make a system that scales rather than flat amounts.

It would be quite simple to use a "shared" favor system and still provide a "bonus" amount of favor to the actual winner of each respective category.

By benefitting one extremely specific style of play, it merely forces players to gravitate to this playstyle in order to be competitive.  That's a pretty boring way to develop a game that is supposed to support multiple styles of play.

As I stated already, if one style of play (farming grunts - wait you're accusing me of thinking of MMO's when you are condoning grunt farming!) benefits all other areas of gameplay more than others, then players will gravitate toward this play-style, which will ultimately make for a boring game.

Answer me this, how would my proposed system be bad in any way?  It promotes team play, it promotes people going on the offensive and actually focusing on the objective.  Also, this is an IDEAS forum, so I am not sure why you would suggest I play another game.  I actually currently play many different games.

I also already had unlocked every favor item in single and multiplayer before installing a recent patch to the game wiped all that out, so yeah when I am re-doing all that and playing to win the match (not to win favor) I end up with equal or less favor than my enemies who lost.

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July 15, 2009 1:08:14 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Elixir,
I agree that selfish behaviour is a hindrance to a team-game such as this one, however someone does get an award and someone does not. Maybe on your team, maybe not. So in that sense, it is a rest because the best performer in that category is rewarded with that award.

Also some races are team based. Some car races are team based etc. For example I lay off some kills and let my teammate regulus get the kills so he can get that award and vice versa for if I get more flags etc. I mean, that's a bit extreme for favor (I don't really play for it).

 

The problem is that one extremly boring and non-risky style of play (farming grunts) currently offers the most rewards at the lowest risk.  It also synergizes with many of the other "awards".

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July 15, 2009 1:19:13 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm not sure what you're arguing here...so you don't like the awards set in place and want different ones. What would those be? You mentioned a share favor system...isn't that what is already in place?

I'd say changing the awards to benefit the team, which I think is what you're saying too, would be way better.

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July 15, 2009 2:39:09 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

@[TAI]Elixir:

Make it so that each demigod kill, building destruction, citadel upgrade, every ~20 creep kills, etc. gives a certain amount of favor. This way, even someone who is a "jack of all trades", i.e. spreads their efforts into different categories depending on the needs of the team, gets rewarded.

Don't make it so that the person with the highest creep kills gets the favor reward for that category. That just encourages non-team play.

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July 15, 2009 2:42:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ahh I see, you're right. That would way far better than the current system in place. So "you get what you deserve" from a big pot kind of thing right? Very nice, I like it.

Now, would this spread evenly for winners and losers? ie Do the winners and losers share creep favor, kill favor, etc. Also what happens if there's only 1 kill in a game by 1 person. How much would he get compared to let's say the 5 others who got 0 kills?

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July 15, 2009 3:05:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It would evenly spread in a sense that everyone gets what they deserve. But, I think the winning team should get a x1.5 bonus to favor earned to make winning more of an incentive.

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July 15, 2009 3:09:53 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It would evenly spread in a sense that everyone gets what they deserve. But, I think the winning team should get a x1.5 bonus to favor earned to make winning more of an incentive.

that is the craziest statement I've heard all day. When is winning not the primary 95%+ incentive of playing a game?

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July 15, 2009 3:19:41 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting WickedBear,


It would evenly spread in a sense that everyone gets what they deserve. But, I think the winning team should get a x1.5 bonus to favor earned to make winning more of an incentive.

that is the craziest statement I've heard all day. When is winning not the primary 95%+ incentive of playing a game?

Right now, wins/losses are completely meaningless. There are no meta-perks for winning lots of games. You don't "unlock" anything (new skills, new items, etc.), you don't go up "rank" in ladders, you don't get anything special for going on winning streaks, etc.

So a lot of people play just to get the most favor, regardless of winning/losing.

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July 15, 2009 3:20:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

There were a lot of games when someone on the losing team got more favor than everyone on my team, which made me ask, "man, why did we just bust our ass to win if the losing guy received more rewards"?

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