I’m back.

By Frogboy on July 8, 2009 3:40:37 PM from

Vacations are always over too fast.

Ever wondered why games don’t tend to be released in the Spring or Summer? Besides the Winter being better for retail, the other thing, at least in software that I’m beginning to see is that it’s harder to get updates out quickly because that’s when people tend to go on vacation. So it’s definitely been a slog getting updates out the door these past few weeks.

It’s just as well because as games evolve, the needs of the game community change. Here are some of the things that have risen high on the list of things to add into Demigod in future updates:

1. I’d like to see a randomize teams in custom games. That is, players press a button and when the game starts, the teams are mixed up. There is definitely a growing issue about “pre-mades” vs. “random”. We will have to talk to Gas Powered Games to see what can be done without blowing up the budget but I think this is an issue that is needed.

2. I also think that clans/groups are probably going to need to be moved up ahead of mod support. Currently v1.2 is looking at modding as a major focus. But I’m curious to hear what you guys think about this because I think modding, as important as it is, may not be as important as making it easier for groups to play together. The pre-made issue wouldn’t be so obnoxious if it were pre-mades vs. pre-mades. Again, the trick here is to do this without blowing up the budget.

3. More demigods. This is a topic that comes up on every call with Gas Powered Games. Right now, they’re focusing on finishing up the demo but getting some sort of pipeline of new demigods is something we think is critical.

4. The freaking stats. While this would probably be #1 on my personal list, I’m painfully aware that I’m in the minority on this. Nevertheless, abusing my position here a bit I assigned part of our software group to get in there and nail down the stupid stats. I’ve come to understand that the situation is a lot harder than it would seem (at least intuitively). But not to be a bastard, I don’t really care if it’s “complicated”. If I win, it better bloody show up on my record. 90% of people probably don’t care but I personally think the 10% who do care are crucial to the game’s long term on-line viability.

Now, this is by no means a complete list. Replays, Rematches, and lots of other things are on the list for a v1.2 which we are negotiating with GPG. But these are the kinds of things that I think are pretty crucial in my opinion.

+912 Karma | 159 Replies

Welcome Back!

Please fix the "Valor Flag Bug" as soon as possible, that is top priority for me because it can change the outcome of games.

Also it shouldn't be as hard as the other stuff you are planning, so please do this first.

Thanks!

Welcome back.

Quoting pacov,

reply 17

Stats are my personal #1 item as well, but mostly related to the guaranteed win ability by using the host disconnect exploit in 1 form or another. As of today, anyone can pull it off and cheat the system.

QFT

For your second point I would say that clan support tops modding, just my vote

More DG, course, we need'em as well a couple of maps.

As for the primary point, yeah, sure, as long its something that a premade can see before entering the room, otherwise the game launch and in 10 seconds everyone quits the game bc they don't want to play against a friend.

There's a huge grey area with stats: Rated & Unrated games. I never cared about stats in my life, that's why I play even if there are noobs on my team, even if I'm sure the other team is a premade of 4 identicle twins with psychic implants, even if it ends up being me + 3 AIs vs 4 humans. But with EVERY game recorded; the host DC exploit; RQs; and the stats not recording correctly, I show 100% losses at the time. Again, I could have cared less, but now I can either be dumped from a game cause I look like a blind/deaf noob from a special needs school who thinks the enemy towers are Santa Claus, or, I'm smurfing. I wish I could play a game without the worry of stats.

I vote mods over clans, but that's only because I'd like Bman's (or simular) mod to be included with the game; having to type OOM dozens of times a game is sooooo 80s dude

Oh, and I have a forum request: If a really big jerk comes into this thread, please consider not locking it. I understand why you do it, but it just seems to give them so much power; just one drunk jerk wearing a lampshade seems to get all the nice guests kicked out of the party too.

My 2 cents......

Playing with groups is huge for me, even in Pantheon. Comparing Demigod to other games never seems like a great idea to me.... but! I'd like to point out a shining example of matchmaking ... Halo. In Halo you could join matchmaking as a group and could even sit in a lobby with your teammates while waiting to be put in a game.

Also another issu not mentioned. Nicknames vs. Account names. Not only is having one name a security risk, but it would ne nice to be able to change your name. Shouldn't be toooo hard to implement, something to think about

-TheWopr

Replays

i dont really care to be honest. all we want is some new features, that is it.

its been nearly 3 months now and the only new content we have received is a random option, changes to minion exploit, HoL nerf and erebus nerf(please correct me if im wrong).

we are just sick of waiting, it feels like GPG really dont care about this game at all .

Well here is my list.

1. Modding. Its just that important since GPG wants to take its time giving us new Demigods and Maps.

2. Clan/Guilds. This will allow the Hardcore to leave us Fun players alone, AKA stomp us in the mud.

3. New Items. The same old item are getting old. I would like to see a revolving mix every month, or at lest a new item every month.

4. New Demigods. I would put this higher, but with Modding would tide us over.

5. New Maps. Same thing as Demigods Mods will tide us over.

Short term - Clans and replays.

Mid term - New content.

Long term - Modding.

In this order:

1. New Demigods and Maps

2. Mod support

3. Clans, replays, etc.

I think it would be a good idea to also release some new content, either 1 or 2 new demigods or a new map or two, before or at the same time you release the modding addon. This way people can be reminded what amount of skill will be needed to make good looking, successful mods.

I'd prefer modding personally. Clan or team support does not interest me in the slightest.

- clan support

- new demigods

... imo, r the 2 most important things here...

lol ... i cant believe ppl even made pre-mades an issue ....

I think Mod Support and Replays are Crucial.

Modding will open up the game in numerous ways. Especially if it's executed as you've described, and ESPECIALLY if you allow certain mods in Pantheon, like UI stuff.

It would be pretty sweet if you took the WoW approach and really let people have a field day with the UI. There's never been an RTS that's done this, and I think it would be a really big deal.

Modding is such an easy way to solve SO many of users problems. It's a super easy win, especially if you if you implement the way you've been talking.

Replays should be another priority. The fact that they're still missing is kind of dumb.

Clan/Team Stuff is important, but it IS coming. I would be sad to see these really easy wins put off in favor of a stop gap for a problem that already has a solution in the works.

quoting post

The reason i feel we have premades (for the most part) is because there is no alternative for friends to play together. This is a game that is meant to be played with friends, and right now that is the only way.

My list of required features is still the same as it was in the other thread.

Replays being the number one thing I'm looking at.

Give us serious modding and we can make the game any way we want. What we can't do is provide the stuff around the game, the stats tracking, the replays, the community support. That's where you guys will need to shine..Which is more important short-term?

I guess I'd say the logistics stuff, though the content is more interesting...

Best case scenario would be providing both

1) Yes, this feature would be great... it'd be nice to have a "Random Demigod" feature for a specific faction (light/dark) for use in Pantheon.

2) Premades, premades, premades... They're all the talk as of late. I don't find them to be much of an issue, even in Pantheon. I have done the premade thing quite a number of times, but a number of times you have to leave and rejoin; this takes up time, and I've noticed it resulting in a loss a number of times. Basically, the game puts AI in the place without having them concede. So, the enemy gets an easy win, and I get a loss. I suppose it's punishment...

Anyways, I woulnd't put clan support ahead of modding. Give us modding before you give us clan support. I feel that modding will help the game far more than clan support will.

3) I'd like to see more Demigods... but modding seems more important.

4) Having fun is more important than the stats, but the stats are still important.

So, IMO, stats and modding are primary issues followed by clan supoport.

I think there are basically two different goals that are currently at odds: One is making the average joe-user's game experience better, while the other is fulfilling the needs of the players in the community, the 'core' players.

Joe User:

Joe is both the players who have just started playing the game, as well as those who are part of the core audience of the game who have not yet bought it. Joe needs:

A Demo System - This allows joe to try out demigod for free. Also, the existence of the demo gives the ad campaign for Demigod more teeth in general.
Better basic gaming options - Random demigod selections, random team option. Even though Joe doesn't know random team option is important, he'll have more fun on average playing in random games because it is less likely to stomp him.
Better availability - Currently, finding interesting and exciting media for Joe is hard. If the community was supplying replays that Joe could grab, or even easily view on Youtube, it would raise his awareness of the game, and help him get excited about it. Watching someone 'own' with Oak makes you want to play the game. Also, a voice chat system, or macro chat "press M to send 'out of mana' to text chat" would help Joe's teammates communicate with him better.
Basic Balance tweaks - This may be my personal opinion, but I think the 'noob level' balance of the game is pretty sporadic. The learning curve is pretty steep, so Joe loses a lot simply because there are fundamental things he has yet to learn. Better balance in cheap items and favor items would help. Some of the more powerful early game abilities are very strong against noobs who have no way to counter them via skills or items, and haven't learned the strategies to deal with them.

In General, we need to help Joe find the game, help him learn the game, and then help him become a member of the community.

Spike, HardCore Community Member:

The core community players, which I think you have correctly identified as important to the longevity of the game, has different needs. Spike HardCore demands much more in the way of balance, show off rights, and ways he can 'own' his gaming experience. Spike Needs:

Homies - The most important part of a community is helping the members get to know each other in and out of the game. This lets them play games for more than just bragging rights, but because they like to play with and against friends. Clan support, and generally just good friend support significantly help achieve this.
Replays - Yes, these are important to Spike too. Not only does he like to relive great games, and show his friends, but Spikes also tend to form clans and have important matches. A little 'tournament' held by random clan players doesn't mean nearly as much if you cannot show off your replays to the other community members.
Pro level Balance - Good players simply don't play the same game as bad players. Bad players die a lot, and rage quit in frustration. Good players never get hit by a hammer slam unless they are stunned. Balancing an ability for the 75% of the player base who aren't 'pro' is different than balancing it for the other 25%... but some concessions must be made. Pro level balance means you have features in the game that remove certain random or unfair features. It means the maps are truly balanced for both sides, not just 'mostly'. A slightly annoying bug (sedna's high priests) doesn't bother Joe.. but it drive Spike to loathe the games where it goes against him.
Mod Support - Not all spikes show off their skills in the arena. Some of them simply want to help the community or express cool ideas. Not only are mods the single most effective way to reach the 5 year mark, but they also can often fix a lot of the companies problems themselves. Modding maps for balance, or UI for readability is the equivalent of unpaid labor to the company, even if it is simply the R&D work that lets you know WHAT changes to make. Also, modding allows a community to have dynamism. People can play with a variety of different game settings, game types, and balance options, that simply cannot be provided by the original vendor. Mod support lets people customize the game to their own needs.
Extended Content - All of the above being equal, the community, and spikes, will all respond very strongly to additional content. Dropping two new DG's at the same time the demo goes live would be an amazingly good thing to do. Having an influx of experience AND new players at the same time will give the spikes more variety, and the noobs more opponents. Believe it or not, a large percent of a new players impression of the game will come from their first 5 online games, as well as the size of the list of games in the custom games browser. For Spikes though, he is always yearning to 'get back' in the game, and when he returns he often rejoins the community, meaning he'll stay back longer. (As opposed to Joe who may come back, try out a few things, and leave again).

In general, Spike HardCore wants his gaming experience refined, and wants to share the game with his friends, by playing with them, and seeing how they have played. He also has strong opinions on the game, and will want to have the ability to customize his gaming experience.

So what does this all mean?

I think the most important things right now are:

Replays
Homies (Clans, team join)
Basic balance and availability tweaks (read Joe User section above).
Demo comes out at about the same time as the two new DG's.

I think these four things describe the needs of DG more than anything. Replays build both player bases (Joe and Spike), more 'homies' will inspire Joe, and satisfy Spike, and the other two things are important for acquiring new players.

Oh, and I think dropping an expansion in about 9 months would be ideal. Maybe as early as Feb or March. Something new (Not sure what, but you know what I mean, that 'grabber' thing you put in an expansion to make it more than just a fancy patch) a handful of new DG's and maps, and maybe a new item store chocked full of new goodies for people to consider.

Welcome back!

On the topic of modding: You are tempting me so badly. I want some more information on this modding system, although I am stuck with thinking -- sorry for mentioning this a million times -- that we won't get a Granny exporter for custom models. Though it would be awesome if we did! Even without that there are quite a few UI changes and small gameplay fixes (TB auto-attack in fire mode) that I would love to throw out there, so modding cannot come out too soon for me! Well, as long as it isn't simply rushed =/ Things usually don't work out that well when they are rushed -.-

On a side note: Please tell GPG to re-enable custom FMOD sound files getting loaded! They changed it when they added those multiple sound fidelity choices

Welcome back from Vacation, we all need one. I would say your right on par with the things we want to see. I think in my opinion the order is actually reversed, come to think of it, exactly in the opposite order listed. Stats fixed, new Demigods, Group Ranked matches, and then a randomize button for teams. I can deal with the teams, and just build up my own team from a pool of good players I encounter who are solo, what I cant do, is fix my own stats, view my up to date stats, or for that matter, really say I am playing and these games are going towards a nice win loss record with some acheivements I can work for.... I also can't play with Demigods that don't exist, and in a game like this, we really need some new flavor...

I feel that some sort of longer term goal would be a nice implementation, cosmetic look changes for 20,000 favor, maybe a new skin for each exisiting demigod for 50,000 favor, so I feel like I can work towards something.... Also, the current health item issue could use a little look see... Just some ideas.

- Mord

Quoting Tsumerius,

reply 22

A clone of the current lobby code, creating a new lobby for Ranked games, creating 3 divisions. Pantheon, Ranked, Custom (unranked/stats unaffliated with Ranked/pantheon)
An option in 'Game Options' to make games unranked. This would allow 'randoms' or 'pugs' to only join games which don't hurt their stats. I would have no problem doing that if it meant me and my friends could play games. It would also add some great functionality, practicing for clans or hardcore buddies, etc. Its prob the best substitute for a whole new lobby or clan support (including its on lobby).
Push out the Clan Support. Bump it up in prority like you said. If I understand the intentions you have posted about, it seems like 'clan support' includes team matchmaking. Really, its not about clan support at all. It's just about that aspect of a new lobby, or a new "Team Pantheon", or "Clan Team Matchmaking", whatever you want to call it. What we need is a feature for friends, clans, premades, whatever to be able to fight the same type of teams.

I heartily agree with these suggestions. I've even made a post in the past suggesting something similar. Turning Pantheon and Skirmish games into lobbys of their own akin to Custom Games lets premades get together for their ranked games very, very easily. Group Exp Average/Location could all be in visible columns in the games list.

1) Bug fixes

2) Bug fixes

3) Some more bug fixes...

Quoting Blitz64,

reply 15

Randomize custom games. I think rather than spend money/resource to get this. The money should be spent getting a more robust skirmish/pantheon. Pantheon is mostly just 2vs2. If you can get it up to 3v3 every game, I think more people would play that instead of custom games.

^^ This. I would love to see Pantheon and Skirmish working better. One of the things that really bothers me is that if a host quits, the game doesn't count. This really makes playing Pantheon and Skirmish frustraiting, because nothing sucks worse then getting a good hard fought win, only to have it not show up on the stats because the host quit. At least when you play Custom games you can ensure that you are the host, so your wins show up on your record.

I think modding still beats out clans. As soon as you make modding available you have two groups creting more content, gpg/stardock and the modders. I really think that is the way to go.

Without a doubt, clan wars and pantheon.

ie have Clan Pantheon, Random Team Pantheon and 1v1 Pantheon.

Look at the 'facts' as presented to us.

The BIGGEST reason Pantheon goes mad is cos of people trying to get pre-mades and quitting. (that's what we are told).

Therefore, if you introduce proper Clan Pantheon, you automatically:

1) Make Clan people happy.

2) Make current random Pantheon work MUCH better.

Modding is all very well but:

a) Most players don't download the custom maps/units cos they're not official.

No real point having great modding support if players have left cos they can't do teams and skirmish/pantheon 'doesn't work'.

Getting gameplay working is number one priority before u start NICE things like mods and replays.

Stats? Well, stats are pointless unless u have Clan Pantheon and Randon Team Pantheon and a proper 1v1 Pantheon with separate achievement awards for each of those categories (just like SupCom had).

The Forums Are Now Closed!

The content will remain as a historical reference, thank you.

I’m back.