Stat cheating... either its real or a bug -- SD please take a look

Can an SD staffer take a look at this?

By on June 29, 2009 10:58:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

pacov

Join Date 02/2008
+182

I decided to check my stats to see how I was doing tonight.  I did a search by my userid and found out I had 1 less win than I expected over my last 3 games.  Well, bugs are bugs, so I figure, ok maybe just some strange rule I don't know about, but after digging for a minute, here's what I found:

I played this game a few hours ago (http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/692752/player/28414/).  My team won.  I remember there being 1 disconnect.  I think that person was the Sylis, who I also think was the host (but I'm not sure).  I believe he quit about midway through the game while he was losing.  He, and only he, shows up with a win stat.  I click on his name and pull his stats http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/games/player/46528/.  He's ladder ranked number 4.  He was getting his butt handed to him and he's ladder ranked number 4.  As in, I played a pick up game with unknown people and ladder rank number 4 get crushed (and he appears to do premades with Slamoo on a regular basis), but emerges with a win... and I get a loss.  The guy is not an active forum member (eg no posts I can find).  Can anything be done?  This appears to be an exploit to me...

For the lazy inclined, here are some pastes that I found in a 5 minute search.  I'm thinking he found a way to still get a win if he loses a match by disconnecting or something.  The worst part is everyone else playing appears to get a loss recorded to them. 

(US) 3v3 US

Conquest on Cataract : Game Info

Winner: Forces of Light
Game Type: Conquest
Start: Jun 29, 2009 7:33 PM
Players: 6
Map: Cataract
End: Jun 29, 2009 8:15 PM
Playing: Custom Game
Game Length: 42 minutes
Ranked: Yes
Note: Games marked as "NA" do not count towards statistics.
PlayerTeamEntityFavor PointsResult
Sylis Forces of Light Torch Bearer 180 Won
Slamoo Forces of Light Regulus 0 Lost
Archaic Dhaos Forces of Light Unclean Beast 0 Lost
xaos2121 Forces of Darkness Regulus 0 Lost
Vaidoras Forces of Darkness Rook 0 Lost
chacawaca Forces of Darkness Sedna 0 Lost

(US) 3v3 US

Conquest on Cataract : Game Info

Winner: Forces of Darkness
Game Type: Conquest
Start: Jun 29, 2009 6:20 PM
Players: 6
Map: Cataract
End: Jun 29, 2009 6:47 PM
Playing: Custom Game
Game Length: 27 minutes
Ranked: Yes
Note: Games marked as "NA" do not count towards statistics.
PlayerTeamEntityFavor PointsResult
pacov Forces of Light Lord Erebus 0 Lost
Sipherous Forces of Light Unclean Beast 0 Lost
wmatheric Forces of Light Sedna 0 Lost
Sylis Forces of Darkness Lord Erebus 105 Won
Slamoo Forces of Darkness Rook 0 Lost
LC217 Forces of Darkness Unclean Beast 0 Lost

 

 

Winner: Forces of Light
Game Type: Conquest
Start: Jun 27, 2009 12:51 AM
Players: 8
Map: Cataract
End: Jun 27, 2009 12:57 AM
Playing: Custom Game
Game Length: 6 minutes
Ranked: Yes
Note: Games marked as "NA" do not count towards statistics.
PlayerTeamEntityFavor PointsResult
Sylis Forces of Light Torch Bearer 90 Won
Slamoo Forces of Light Regulus 0 Lost
DrunknMaster Forces of Light Unclean Beast 0 Lost
Sly_Squash Forces of Light Lord Erebus 0 Lost
SDGuthrie Forces of Darkness Rook 0 Lost
Lucifirus Forces of Darkness Lord Erebus 0 Lost
doomcloud Forces of Darkness Queen of Thorns 0 Lost
HauserGrim Forces of Darkness Regulus 0 Lost

 

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June 29, 2009 11:15:42 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Yup, it is the host disconnect exploit.  Had it happen to me twice in the last couple of days, atleast once earlier today.

 

This is really annoying a ton of BS.  SD know about it, but I am not sure they have a fix in the works, it would require a major change in how stat repoting works.  Hope they can solve this one for v1.2, but since they haven't discussed it I doubt it is even a possibility.

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June 29, 2009 11:31:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hmm... if its a known exploit and the stats are kept in a database... any chance such people could be flagged and have their "hard earned stats" borked?  No Demigod code required, but web code?  If they have, say X games with them as the only counted winner... move to rank + 100,000?  Total POS move.  With an exploit like that... resetting stats was...

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June 30, 2009 12:28:39 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Sylis hosted another game.  I saw and jumped in and had a few kind words with him.  He says his dog unplugs his router from time to time... ok then...

Seriously, I would be thrilled to hear that this is being looked at by an SD staffer. Thanks!

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June 30, 2009 1:04:12 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Just to clear the air for that twat,

Normally I dont bother with forums or posts and this is likely the only one I'll be putting up.  Actually registered only minutes ago.  This after the oh so sweet pacov jumped in a lobby to bitch, moan, and complain. 

I do play with Sylis alot.  I also remember the game in question.  If pacov would stop trolling and flaming for 2 seconds and think.. he would remember I stayed to finish the map and lost.  So before anymore bitching and moaning goes on.. yes I have heard of the exploit, no I dont use it, no Sylis doesnt use it, and yes he is frequently disconnected from winning and losing games alike.

The ranking system is flawed and has been since release.  If yer all about the stats.. then this is probably not the game for you.  If you have no friends and dont like going against teams where friends play together frequently.. this is probably not the game for you.  This game -is- for you if you enjoy the style of gameplay and can overlook the mountain of bugs and sloppy coding involved.  If you're just not enjoying your stay in Demigod, by all means.. go pick up a copy of Warcraft 3 and grab the DoTA mod. 

I would love for all the ridiculous bugs to just get fixed, but that is going to take alot more than wishful thinking.  The networking side of this game is pretty intense from a coding perspective.  Very few games utilize this style of connectivity and even fewer are successful with it.  Moving from a host/client framework to a Peer to Peer based framework is no simple task.  The other minor stuff like the pathing and AI problems are common problems found in most other games for obvious reasons. 

 

anywho,.. I got off topic and went ranting.  Point being.. trolls and flamers annoy me, there's my counter flame/trolling, and I wish you the best of luck in your future trolling/flaming. 

 

my random, half-asleep 2 or 3 cents,

    Slam

 

 

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June 30, 2009 1:04:13 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

His dog has a nasty habit of stepping on/biting his modem wires or prancing on his power strip. Usually a game is preceded with a ding sound on vent then a lot of swearing.

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June 30, 2009 1:28:29 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Slamoo... Woo... trolls flaming.  Woo.  I've handled that with an impressive comeback.  So, moving swiftly on.  Flame off. 

Thanks for caring enough to make an account and adding your two cents.  As I noted in my post, I'm aware you finished the game out with me (read 1 person disconnected) and that you play with Sylis in premade games.  Not a big deal.  I'm not looking to tear either of you a new one (though I did try to get a response in game from 2 people who don't visit the forums).  I, apparently like you, am looking for bugs/exploits to get fixed.  This appears to be an exploit based on Sylis's stats.  He's an ok player, but not great.  He's ranked number 4 in custom games for stats and has played 97 games and lost only 9 of them.  Just from viewing some of his stats, there are several instances where he is the only winner.  You'd obviously agree that is at least a bug.  When a pattern appears and he's the #4 ladder player in the world (you know, where he's the ONLY winner in multiple games), then it bears asking if this is an exploit.  I'd think the easiest, most logical decision would be for him NOT to host games as that plus some sort of disconnect appears to be the issue.  Yet he hosts most/all of his games.  If you've seen this in the past, then you can easily see the logic to that.  He doesn't unintentionally screw anyone elses stats and that's that. 

Anyway, stats were just reset because 1.1 was expected to fix alot of stat recording issues.  Favor was also reset.  This implies that there was actually a reason to do so (eg improved/non borked stats).  Sylis intentionally or unintentionally is bound for the number 1 ladder ranked slot. 

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June 30, 2009 1:53:26 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

"Cables"></a>"

Ok if you honestly have that hard of a time believing that my dog unplugged my modem power plug here's a pic. I must say thank you, though, for coming in my game and giving me a direct link to this hilarious post. I don't leave or intentionally disconnect myself from any match no matter if I'm losing or what. In fact, that match you posted the info to first w/ me, Archaic Dhaos, and Slamoo that I got d/c'd from because my cable got unplugged again, this time by my pothead brother tripping around stepping on my cables, we were winning big time. My team won within about 5 minutes or less of me getting disconnected in fact. As Archaic Dhaos said, when that happens and I get disconnected like that he clearly hears me leave the vent channel only to return seconds later screaming and cursing in anger that it just happened. Even in that match I was playing against you in. It was a very good match (even though I wasn't getting "crushed" like you just stated) and I definantly wanted to continue on with it. If it really makes you all that mad that I play with my friend Slamoo then you have some serious issues my friend. Don't take your sad pathetic little rants to the forums. Go suck on your mom's teet and cry and tell her how you have no friend's to play with on a regular basis. Maybe she'll give a flying f***. As for me not being an active forum member..... I honestly don't know what to say about that. Do you really care that I'm not an active forum member? Get a life geek

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June 30, 2009 1:57:22 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Well seeing as how the image insert doesn't seem to work, here's a direct link for ya lamer

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss307/ViperOfAurole/Cables.jpg

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June 30, 2009 2:25:23 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hmmmmmmm... something interesting I just found.

http://forums.demigodthegame.com/353336

Liar! Dude I totally bet you just rage quit b/c you were losing omg!!! There's no way you POSSIBLY got disconnected right? I mean it's totally unbelievable that I just legitamately got disconnected. Nah man you just rage quit, that's it.

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June 30, 2009 2:28:44 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Sylis.  Thanks for joining the forums as well.  Seriously.  If you say the problems are caused by your dog, then ok.  You do recognize the stat thing as an issue.  I stated its either a bug or an exploit.  I take it your stance is that its a bug, exploited by your dog. 

also... this has become a post about a pot head brother and a dog causing you to rise to the #4 rank. 

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June 30, 2009 2:31:54 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Yeah it's a bug. There's a lot of those in this game no crap. If you're trying to get a known bug/exploit out there, great. I'm totally for it. Just don't come joining my games flaming me and talking crap in front of everyone like you have something to prove.

Edit: If I really truly honestly wanted to cheat my way into the top rank by disconnecting myself if I'm losing, do you think I'd have any losses? Think about it.... quit being stupid.

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June 30, 2009 2:39:08 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Sylis - here you go.  Apology from me to you for riling you and slamoo up in your game.  You're right.  I did not need to jump into the lobby you were in and stir things up like I did.  I am 100% for getting this fixed.  If its a bug, then please, create a bug report and post your specifics and send the appropriate logs off to support@stardock.com.  That will help.  We have ALL have had connectivity issues and if you are constantly disconnecting from game, then I'd think you'd want that resolved asap. 

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June 30, 2009 2:53:41 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

 

Hello Sylis.

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June 30, 2009 2:56:55 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Sylis,
Yeah it's a bug. There's a lot of those in this game no crap. If you're trying to get a known bug/exploit out there, great. I'm totally for it. Just don't come joining my games flaming me and talking crap in front of everyone like you have something to prove.

Edit: If I really truly honestly wanted to cheat my way into the top rank by disconnecting myself if I'm losing, do you think I'd have any losses? Think about it.... quit being stupid.

I don't think SD can fix you're dog bug.

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June 30, 2009 2:58:56 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Sup man

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June 30, 2009 3:00:37 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Just feed your dog some homework before you start a game, and it will keep him busy   Sorry, I could not resist.

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June 30, 2009 5:10:20 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Even if you're disconnected by your dog or whatever you're willing to finish the game, take the win and give all others a lose, it's not really fair. You could just quit after you get disconnected and the game wouldn't be counted at all.

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June 30, 2009 7:00:32 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You'd be suprised how often 'ipconfig /release' is used to get out of a game.

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June 30, 2009 7:04:58 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Maybe you should move your router somewhere that your dog cant easily access... but thats just a good suggestion, do with it what you will.

Wether or not you intentionally exploited a stat bug i could care less, i'm glad its been brought up because now it can be fixed. Kudus pacov. Did he need to join your game and flame you? no of course not, but you should understand why someone might look at those stats and say wtf and confront you.

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June 30, 2009 8:24:34 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Sylis,

Edit: If I really truly honestly wanted to cheat my way into the top rank by disconnecting myself if I'm losing, do you think I'd have any losses? Think about it.... quit being stupid.

 

Well you could end up in a game someone else hosted and be unable to do it.

But who cares if he's abusing it or if it's his dog. Other factors of the stats don't record properly a lot of the time anyway, so stats mean nothing even with the host exploit.

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June 30, 2009 9:42:46 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

stats in this game are worthless.  They were worthless at release.  They are still worthless after 1.1 "fixed" them.  If you are playing for stats, you are playing the wrong game.  GPG/SD can't seem to get them working correctly and given the fact that we are what? 2 months since release?  It is unlikely they ever will get them working correctly.

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June 30, 2009 12:02:58 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Its a pointless argument whether the person was exploiting or not, frustrating for all parties for sure though.  Bottom line is stats are still broke and it seems they should be so much easier to keep track of.  If someone discs they should get a loss and the game should go on.  I'm not sure why that isn't possible but its pretty retarded that it isn't.  I've had games where the host did not drop completely dissapear from the game list and not show anything.

This game is fun, and I don't "only" play for stats.  But stats do matter for the longevity of the game.  If they don't eventually fix it they will lose a lot of people who want to play the game competitively.  I enjoy the game, but I'd also like some accurate barometer of how I am doing.  Right now the only way I know if anyone is good to play with them, but the friends list and social network of the game is so crappy I won't be able to play a game with them again unless I personally know them or use some sort of outside of the game contact to get in touch with them.

Here's to hoping they fix stats, and that they don't reset the favor again when doing it

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June 30, 2009 12:15:43 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

The networking side of this game is pretty intense from a coding perspective. Very few games utilize this style of connectivity and even fewer are successful with it. Moving from a host/client framework to a Peer to Peer based framework is no simple task.

Common misconception here. In actuality, nearly ALL multiplayer RTS games use Peer to Peer these days and they do it quite successfully. Even Demigod is using it quite successfully these days.

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June 30, 2009 12:25:55 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Sylis, if you want to save any face, explain the stats he shows in the OP. How can you be recorded with three wins where everyone else in the game lost? Smells like an exploit to me, and that picture shows absolutely nothing, and can show nothing.

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June 30, 2009 12:28:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This whole host disconnects/server split/sun is out today = Everyone gets a loss needs to be fixed, and fast.

I don't understand how they decided that one person should be reporting the outcome of the game and to completely trust that person (the host?)  Each person reports the outcome of the game - listen to everyone.

If you server split and take half the people with you and still win - You should get a win.

If the other people who server split off also win - They should get a win too.

Yes this means you could end up with 6 winners and 0 losers potentially but each person WON THE GAME THAT THEY PLAYED.  They earned the win.  It's better than handing out random and nonsensical losses for things completely out of your control, especially if you did indeed win the game.

Giving people losses they didn't deserve is basically a sure way to ensure they never play the game again.  But I've never heard of people leaving because their opponents got wins.

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