Kestrel's Oak Build

By on June 24, 2009 6:56:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ke5trel

Join Date 02/2008
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I've been developing this since late Beta, but I'm gonna start looking at other builds and maybe some games competing with this one (^^) so enjoy:

Level:         Skill:
1               Shield
2               Soul Ward
3               Penitence
4               Soul Ward II
5               Soul Power
6               Penitence II
7               Surge of Faith
8               Soul Ward III
9               Penitence III
10             Surge of Faith II
11             Soul Ward IV
12             Penitence IV
13             Soul Power II
*Most games end by this point*

If the game goes on get your ultimates in Ward and Surge, then max out Shield or put some points in Morale

Items - I like the versatility Cloak of Night Favor item gives me - makes it extremely hard to kill this build while allowing me to stretch the point of no return.  Otherwise Blood of the Fallen, Amulet of Teleportation, or Ring of Divine Might all have their uses (though ring is usually better with straight morale builds). 

1.  Buy Monks, totem of revelation (keep the totem for increased LoS)
2.  Vlemish Faceguard + Plenor Helm (you only need both if you are in a close game or you are spamming Surge)
3.  Unbreakable Boots
4.  Nimoth Chest Armor
5.  Bishops
6.  L4 Siege
7.  Hauberk of Life
*with this build buy combat pots and port scrolls as necessary 

Flavor - This Oak is unkillable if he's careful and can push a tower or demolish most opponents with equal facility.  The thing I like most about this build is its flexibility - you don't have quite the staying power of a full minion build but you will kill more demigods. At the same time you have more survivability than most opponents and can match their burst dps.  If you don't know how your opponents are teching you can always be reasonably confident that this build will cover one of their weak spots. 

Things to think about -

- Minions make great scouts, tower decoys, and account for a big chunk of your late-game DPS
- Surge of Faith is a massive tactical movement and attack speed buff for you, your minions, and your allies.  Use it as often as your mana will allow.
- Penitence is your bread-and-butter - figuring out whether to use it to debuff or interrupt is a big part of every battle, and it's what you will get most of your last hits from.
- Shield is your ace in the hole.  If you trigger it too early or too late then this build just won't work for you.  Learn how and when to use this ability and you will cut down your deaths and those of nearby allies 50% or more.   
 
Counters - Full Morale Erebus or Oak, some HP UBs, multiple burst opponents - you can't beat a full morale build in a 1v1 with this, but you should be able to handle anything less.  You have trouble with a full HP UB because his longterm survivability is close to your own and his dps is better, you have trouble with spaced focused bursts from multiple opponents, but who doesn't?
 
Completely Eats - Regulus, Fire TB, non-morale Oak, most Sednas, Qot, Slam Rooks, non-morale Erebus, Spit UB, towers, creep waves

Thanks for reading, and if you have any comments please let us know.

PS - if you have critiques of the build I'd love to see those too, but I'd also like to play against you before you dismiss it completely. 

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June 24, 2009 9:10:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Waited some time for your build Ke5strel and its seems good, just one thing I dont get:

why not spending at least one point in Divine Justis? very good for survivability and repelish mana in combat, I dont see a reason not to get it. I would sure take it instead soul power II that just doesn't add much.

any way, good build, nice job.

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June 24, 2009 9:52:51 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Seems pretty decent... but is Shield really that necessary at level 1? Confrontations at level 1 (flag in cataract, for instance) are generally decided by the best early direct damage abilities, so I think I'd rather get Penitence at 1, and shield at 2.  Might not really matter though.

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June 24, 2009 10:06:25 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

well thats pretty much the polar opposite from the way I play Oak. maybe i'll give it a shot and see whats up. 

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June 24, 2009 10:37:03 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

maybe i'll try it, i prefer a penitence build though

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June 24, 2009 11:24:52 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

why not spending at least one point in Divine Justis? very good for survivability and repelish mana in combat, I dont see a reason not to get it. I would sure take it instead soul power II that just doesn't add much.

@ X-Raider - Divine Justice is a good ability, but until level 12 or so I have no room for it, and after that no need for it.  I've seen successful DJ/Surge builds, but my regen is taken care of by priests and my minions stay alive with a bit of micro

Seems pretty decent... but is Shield really that necessary at level 1? Confrontations at level 1 (flag in cataract, for instance) are generally decided by the best early direct damage abilities, so I think I'd rather get Penitence at 1, and shield at 2. Might not really matter though.

There is a myth that Oak is underpowered until level 5-7.  It's a direct consequence of people not taking advantage of early shield.  You will lose maybe 1 out of 20 starting confrontations if you use shield right.  Penitence I doesn't offer you the same odds, imo.  In addition, you can string opponents out for the kill with shield as your first skill because they can't predict it.  AFAIK it's the best starting ability in the game bar none..

maybe i'll try it, i prefer a penitence build though

This will beat a straight Penitence/Assassin build every time 1v1, and offers really strong support capabilities Penitence alone can't manage.  In any case, you are maxing Penitence for the endgame

 

Thanks for the thoughts so far

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June 24, 2009 11:32:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I tend to not play 1v1   I like to feast on those who underestimate penitence. my build is actually very similar now that i look at yours, but I get penitence first thing i can and max soul ward a bit later

 

i don't buy monks though, i tend towards items only. do you think monks would be worth it in a pent build, i never tried it

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June 24, 2009 11:37:05 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

shield lev 1 is necessary if you are playing hyper agressive or savior.. Anything else and its silly.  I'll give your build a shot.  Thanks for the post. 

I think monks on a strong oak build (early killing) is necessary...

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June 25, 2009 3:18:07 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Nice build. A build I use is almost the same, but i prefer to invest more in a Shield midgame, sacrificing 1 level of Penitence or Soul (raise dead) ward depending on situation. This makes me a birt better in support/tank role i prefer to play as Oak (as I suppose this build is not a asassin build). Actually good Shield timing becomes a problem when creep waves get larger and in a common fight all the models mix up and you simply can't see what your opponent is doing.

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June 25, 2009 9:00:09 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ke5trel, want to give tips on early game shield usage?  Particularly for initial encounters?

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June 25, 2009 9:29:02 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting woca,


i don't buy monks though, i tend towards items only. do you think monks would be worth it in a pent build, i never tried it

Worth every dime.  First thing I buy with Oak.  Really helps you stay in lanes longer and can make the difference against another DG early without monks as during the battle all of a sudden you get healed 1500K just like that.  Pent a couple times as they run and you may get an early kill.  Seige archers are also nice, can hit towers out of their range.  If you need to retreat back to base leave your archers and monks at a spot with a death ward and they can either delay the next creep wave and/or blast on a tower until they die.  Either way you'll get some spirits ready to go for your next push.

By level 13-15 or so with Surge and Div Just along with Monks 4 and Vlemish and Platemail I can stand in the middle of 2 creep waves and will never lose health or mana and just keep the waves back all by myself.  Only thing to push me out is a couple DGs that come in.  Wand of speed and RUN! 

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June 25, 2009 10:37:46 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i don't buy monks though, i tend towards items only. do you think monks would be worth it in a pent build, i never tried it

absolutely worth it, regardless of your build.  Idol priests, now that HoL is an artifact, are the best health regen in game without a doubt, especially for the price.  I'll usually skip over l2 and l3 unless stacking with an ally or playing with a Sedna.  Bishops at 2700g are a steal and easily achievable by level 5, and they give you and your allies a decisive advantage if your opponents don't match them. 

shield lev 1 is necessary if you are playing hyper agressive or savior.. Anything else and its silly.

Maybe it's my "aggressive savior" playstyle, then, but I can't really imagine building an Oak without that early point in shield

Ke5trel, want to give tips on early game shield usage? Particularly for initial encounters?

It's kinda hard to set down rules for this one - the cd is so long that if you use it early you will waste it, but if you wait too long you or your ally will die. 

Broadly

1.  Use it to purge, but only when your opponent has commited to battle - if they are, for example, playing a spit harrassment UB don't waste it on purging the spit until UB is coming in for a sustained fight.  Worth noting that debuffs will penetrate shield if they proc after shield goes up - so if you shield and then UB spits when you shield is gone you will take damage on the remainder of the spit timer.  This is most important when fighting any team with a slow reg or ice tb..

2.  Use it to block nukes - it's part of what makes Oak so great against Slam Rooks and Snipe Regs, but if you keep track of opponent cd you can negate a bunch of instant nukes like Sedna's pounce too. 

3.  Use it to make a tank - it doesn't matter who you cast it on, for 3-6 seconds they are invulnerable - this makes them a tank.  If you have three enemies piling on one ally you can shield him just to keep him in the battle or shift the focus to a stronger ally.  It's difficult for most opponents to shift their focus once committed, so you can really change the flow of battle just by negating the damage early

4,  Use it to escape or help your allies escape.  The purge and the invuln mean that you can stretch point of no return way past most other dgs.  You can pursue an enemy past two sets of towers at level 4 and get out, more importantly, you can stay safe and warm and use the incredible range to get your ally out. 

A good shield oak is going to cut down on team deaths as much as a good Sedna or QoT, if not more, but the Oak can also push, farm, and kill more effectively than either, imo...

I'm sure there's more, but that's all I can think of offhand...how else do you guys use shield?

 

Incidentally countering a good Oak/Sedna team 2v2 is difficult, because they have nukes *and* mutual damage mitigation.  In my experience this is the hardest team to beat in a 2v2.

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June 25, 2009 7:57:57 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This guy blows

just played him twice

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/671874/player/35733/

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/671703/player/35733/

 

he conceded both times

around lvl 8 he said "Wheres HoL?" this made me laugh.

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June 25, 2009 8:07:13 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

From what I heard he had a random first game, and crashed the second. And before you say he didn't crash, he was dropping out of games all day since the patch.

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June 25, 2009 8:08:23 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting RapierX,
From what I heard he had a random first game, and crashed the second. And before you say he didn't crash, he was dropping out of games all day since the patch.

 

he conceded

he said so when we rematched

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June 25, 2009 8:58:20 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This guy blows

just played him twice

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/671874/player/35733/

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/671703/player/35733/

he conceded both times

around lvl 8 he said "Wheres HoL?" this made me laugh.

cool story bro  

I do miss my items, but never said anything to you about it, pretty sure.

The second game was going a more the way I thought it should when I crashed.  I guess Rapier caught me cursing about it ^^

You guys are good dancers..any time you want to rematch with people I know I'd be happy to..

Although if we could play a map other than Crucible that'd be great - I like to keep my games under 60 minutes when possible

 

 

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June 26, 2009 1:05:34 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Ke5trel,

This guy blows

just played him twice

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/671874/player/35733/

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/671703/player/35733/

he conceded both times

around lvl 8 he said "Wheres HoL?" this made me laugh.
cool story bro  

I do miss my items, but never said anything to you about it, pretty sure.

The second game was going a more the way I thought it should when I crashed.  I guess Rapier caught me cursing about it ^^

You guys are good dancers..any time you want to rematch with people I know I'd be happy to..

Although if we could play a map other than Crucible that'd be great - I like to keep my games under 60 minutes when possible

 

 

 

they both lasted 15 mins..

"60 mins" is exaggerating

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June 26, 2009 6:59:11 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

"60 mins" is exaggerating

Judging by your record and the way you name your games you are still enjoying stomps, but a close Crucible game can last 45-60 minutes no problem..

If you ever get tired of premade vs random check out #demigod-live on irc.  The people there know how to play pre

Who knows, you might make even more friends 

That said, you ever play Oak?  Got any shield tips?

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June 26, 2009 7:40:12 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Ke5trel,

"60 mins" is exaggerating
Judging by your record and the way you name your games you are still enjoying stomps, but a close Crucible game can last 45-60 minutes no problem..

If you ever get tired of premade vs random check out #demigod-live on irc.  The people there know how to play pre

Who knows, you might make even more friends 

That said, you ever play Oak?  Got any shield tips?

 

dont rely on hol,

these days I see oak going minion build

the people on #demigod-live are chronically afk

 

and if you're implying the people on irc can beat me, antiock and lifeslazypuppet, im pretty sure all of us outrank them and have more team experience...

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June 26, 2009 11:36:46 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

and if you're implying the people on irc can beat me, antiock and lifeslazypuppet, im pretty sure all of us outrank them and have more team experience...

Hmmm, I can think of a couple of good teams that have 9 months of experience playing together at this point, but I'm not implying anything about "beating."  As I said, I know you can play, and I look forward to completing a game against you guys on a team I know. 

I'm just saying that some day, maybe, you'll get tired of same old 16 minute Crucible Sedna/QoT wins and be looking for a challenge.  On that day you will be more likely to find one from the peeps on live than anywhere else, AFAIK

And it can take a while to get a game, but I usually just put the idea out there and go play randoms until enough people are together to play.  Or schedule a game for a certain time.  YMMV

Alternatively, start labeling your random games "UBERZ-UNDEFEATED!" or "SUPERL33T ONLY!" and you'll usually get a higher-level crowd ^^

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June 27, 2009 8:30:18 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Ke5trel,

and if you're implying the people on irc can beat me, antiock and lifeslazypuppet, im pretty sure all of us outrank them and have more team experience...
Hmmm, I can think of a couple of good teams that have 9 months of experience playing together at this point, but I'm not implying anything about "beating."  As I said, I know you can play, and I look forward to completing a game against you guys on a team I know. 

I'm just saying that some day, maybe, you'll get tired of same old 16 minute Crucible Sedna/QoT wins and be looking for a challenge.  On that day you will be more likely to find one from the peeps on live than anywhere else, AFAIK

And it can take a while to get a game, but I usually just put the idea out there and go play randoms until enough people are together to play.  Or schedule a game for a certain time.  YMMV

Alternatively, start labeling your random games "UBERZ-UNDEFEATED!" or "SUPERL33T ONLY!" and you'll usually get a higher-level crowd ^^

 

we tried that

we got fucktards like you and Kitkun who concede 11 mins in.

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June 27, 2009 11:07:48 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

alright, sunshine, never mind

Have fun with your pugs

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June 27, 2009 7:18:17 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Courtesy is a lost art...

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June 28, 2009 5:18:44 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Davinaldo,
Courtesy is a lost art...

 

trolling is the new black

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June 28, 2009 4:53:08 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I've been playing this build for the past few days, and I have to say it is quite nice.  I'm not that good of a player, though, and I seem to have trouble timing the shield.  When I have a teammate who is worse than me, I seem to fail even harder.

I use to wait until a higher level for shield, but I'm finding it so effective against those potential early kills that I can't see myself taking anything else at the start.  Thanks, Kestrel.

 

 

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June 28, 2009 10:09:28 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I've been playing this build for the past few days, and I have to say it is quite nice. I'm not that good of a player, though, and I seem to have trouble timing the shield. When I have a teammate who is worse than me, I seem to fail even harder.

I use to wait until a higher level for shield, but I'm finding it so effective against those potential early kills that I can't see myself taking anything else at the start. Thanks, Kestrel.

Glad to hear it

You will always play worse with bad allies and better with good allies, it's how you know the game is worth playing - don't let it discourage you

And you'll get a feel for shield as you play

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