Demigod: June FAQ

By Frogboy on June 17, 2009 2:35:08 PM from

JoeUser Forums

Greetings!

So where do things stand with Demigod as of mid June with our favorite action RTS/RPG game?

Let's dig into this with some frequent questions I get messaged.

Q: Who are you?

A: Frogboy = Brad Wardell, President & CEO of Stardock

Q: Who makes Demigod?

A: The award-winning developer Gas Powered Games is the developer of Demigod. However, as some may have noticed from Sins of a Solar Empire and Demigod, Stardock gets very involved in the games it publishes. The most recent example being when Demigod's MP connectivity was problematic during the initial launch, we assigned our own developers to fix it.

Q: What is the status of on-line connectivity.

A: Pretty much perfect now in custom games. I.e. as good or better than any RTS out there. That said, we can't control what happens in-game with people who disconnect or have shaky connections. We take the data and send it to Gas Powered Games to see if there's anything that can be improved.

Q: How good is the online experience now?

A: I'm highly biased but I would say it's generally pretty awesome IMO -- now. That said, I have a long list of complaints:

1. Rage quitting. v1.1 will let teams concede and we're going to start rating people based on the % of games they complete/concede ([good],[fair],[poor]) so other people can choose to play with them and in pantheon/skirmish games it will be biased towards those who complete a game (or at least concede as a team).

2. "Random" disconnects. These don't tend to be as random as they look. There are people who have, to be put mildly, non-ideal Internet connections. I had almost forgotten the term "ISDN" until playing online. This happens in every game but it is still something on our list to work with GPG in making better.

3. Pantheon / Skirmish quitters. Biggest problem here is where people quit pantheon games before they start. I mean literally quit. The solution I think here is to let people join as groups which is something we're talking to GPG about doing in a future update.

But as some have observed, I tend to be a glass is half empty guy. In all honesty, I'd say that Demigod is the funnest game I've played online in years - since Total Annihilation for me. YMMV.

Q: How are sales?

A: Mixed. Digital sales are great. Retail sales need work. We are hoping word of mouth on the game will encourage people to go to their local retailer and pick up the game.

Q: Where are the two new Demigods?

A: We're still working out the details with GPG. They're heavily into Supreme Commander 2 but they are working on more Demigods. We are leaning towards having both Demigods being assassins since they are, statistically, the most popular. One good, one evil.

Q: When is v1.1 due to be released.

A: Next week.

Q: What are the next updates beyond v1.1 going to focus on?

A: Modding & clan support are at the top of the feature list. Beyond that, it will depend on how sales continue to be honest.

Q:Why isn't Gas Powered Games on the forums?

A: They are reading the forums, I can assure you. They're just extremely busy working on the actual game. I don't code on Demigod so I have the luxury of being able to hang out with you guys and actually play on the game.

Q: I get confused over developers and publishers. Could you explain this more?

A: Sure. Stardock develops and publishes games. It developed, for example, Galactic Civilizations I/II and The Political Machine. It published Sins of a Solar Empire and Demigod.

When we publish, we get heavily involved on the game design to a very large degree (in Sins we worked closely with Ironclad on everything from what each frigate and cruiser did as well as the economic system, in Demigod, we were heavily involved with the flags and citadel upgrade concepts) but we don't write any code for the game itself but ultimately (after the initial release) ended up writing a lot of the connectivity code to replace the licensed system we had used.

The next game we're developing ourselves is Elemental. That's one we're developing and publishing.

Q: When are you going to fix "the balance" in Demigod.

A: You losing a game to someone doesn't imply an imbalanced game. V1.1 will be tweaking things like Heart of Life and numerous other things but no, <Insert Demigod here that ticked you off in last night's game> is not over powered.

Q: How do you plan to keep the community growing?

A: We're now close enough that I can tell you have a new feature that will be going into beta. It's called ReadyToPlay(TM). It will help you get groups of people together for games.

We are also going to have official tournaments after v1.1. The rankings you see today are going to disappear after v1.1 now that the early cheese issues and data reporting is taken care of better.

Overall, the community seems to be growing pretty steadily in terms of # of games played per day.

But the main thing about the stats is that MY stats will get reset because I can assure you any time I lose it's due to the other guy's demigod being over powered, the other guy cheating somehow, or some bug. There is no other possible reason as I think you would all agree...

+912 Karma | 84 Replies

Please put in a viable replay system.

Frogboy posted this on the 11th of June:

Version 1.1

I have in my hands a release candidate from Gas Powered Games for v1.1.

Here are a few things we are looking for in v1.1

Team concede. If it looks like you’re going to lose, your team and vote to concede and end the game so you can go to the next.
Speed debuffs have a minimum move speed now.
Better chat handling for better visibility
When you sell a minion idol, existing units are destroyed.
Updated computer AI
Random Demigod option
Bunch of other tweaks, fixes, enhancements

High on our list is the handling of replays.

So very likely no replays in 1.1

Why does it matter if retail sales are low if digital sales are so great? A sale is a sale, right?

Retail sales have to stay strong to keep the game on shelves.

i can't even remember the last time i got a PC game from a store. With apps like Steam and Impulse who needs to drive to the store just to find out the game isn't in stock... relying on retail sales seems like a lost cause now adays, if digital sales are great i think that what you should be looking at.

Quoting TheScottishAlien,

reply 5

Maybe I'm just odd in comparison to most people, but I would rather have a hard copy of a PC game as well the option to download it later in digital format, rather than just a digital option. Maybe I'm just big fan of boxart, but I nearly always make the trip to buy a physical copy simply to have the official media dvd and box. Am I alone?

-Chase

Well, tried 2 more Pantheon games.

1 was a 3v3.... 2+1 AI against 3 AI. Fantastic.

The other was a 2v1 (which turned into a 2vAI after 20 seconds).

Still, I'm told it's as good as it's gonna get so I must be unlucky.

Quoting TheScottishAlien,

reply 5

I agree; unless I get a "classic" game for under $20, I always get the boxed version.

Digital is also significantly cheaper for many people say, in Australia. Not only do I no longer buy retail boxed, but I dont know of the last retail box purchase any of my friends made either.

Hello Frogboy,

I have a few things to say in response to this and I'd /love/ to have a response, though I know I won't get one. But I'll be spending a fair amount of time writing this so I hope you'll spend the time to read it.

As I understand it, the first 2-4 additional Demigods are going to supported by Stardock, and cost GPG roughly $100k to make each Demigod. Since the next two demigods are going to be assassin-type, I am inclined to believe at least an additional two demigods are planned for development (general). From there on, demigods may only come at an extra cost, which is understandable. Plus, at that point the game will be 3-4 months old and DLC is a common solution to revitalize a game. I think we all know the more content the better the game is, so I really support the growth of this game.

What concerns me the most is that horrible "to be honest" statement, concerning future support. Although I do prefer knowing the honest truth to being lied to and making poor decisions because of it, GPG seems to be really dropping the ball on this. Them moving on to SupCom immediately and so on, makes this seem like a bailed project. With that in mind, I'll have a hard time recommending this game to others.

You say that Demigod is going to be dependant on word-of-mouth. I know of a TCG company called Decipher, which is currently producing the card game 'FightKlub'. This companies' customer service rivals that of Stardock, in fact, I have a signed card from the CEO herself in my binder, thanking me for supporting the company. They did a lot of very revolutionary things regarding marketing in that game (the gameplay was quite unique as well, but irrelevant to this discussion):

- It was invite only.

- You could only buy cards online, and they would ship it to you.

This was central to the development of the game. You say that you're dependant on word-of-mouth to generate sales, to then generate additional content. Decipher did it the other way around. You would make a /direct/ 10% cut off of any people you invited to the website and then purchase cards. For life. Just a few posts ago, someone mentioned 'trying their best' to recruit 20 or something friends to Demigod. Will that person be rewarded for their efforts? 'Maybe' at best, if GPG just happens to make enough money.

Although I do appreciate the 50% off coupons, and I think they did drive a large amount of Impulse-sales (I gave my coupon to a friend who ended up buying DG, for example), this is another example where Stardock rewarded not the people who spread the game around, and instead those who the 'word of mouth' spread to.

The 20% off coupons do reward those who play the game online, but not those who spend hours convincing friends at LAN parties to get the game (me).

If you're going to make additional content driven by word of mouth, it will not work very well. Decipher, in fact, stopped making it invite-only about a month ago and if you join without a 'mentor' then you are randomly assigned to someone. This was because they ran into so many issues with relying on players for marketing. (There was also a fair amount of backlash on the 10% reward program since a lot of people claimed that anyone talking about the game was just trying to make a quick buck).

Since the next two demigods (and hopefully four) will be free, I suggest maybe adding a 'invite' function to Demigod and/or Impulse. Let us share our 20% coupons with unique codes with friends, or let someone enter our screen name when buying a direct-download for a small discount ($2, anyone?). Then, if you have invited, say, 3 or 5 friends to purchase Demigod, we get a free demigod download pack. This is a win-win situation:

- My mentees win (they save $2)

- I win (I get a free download pack, worth $5 (?) )

- You win, you have 3 or 5 new customers.

I know that my suggestions will probably be ignored and certainly not considered, but please do not put the players into a position where our hours of hosting LAN parties and campaigning the game are rewarded with a 'maybe' for additional content!

I know that it would probably take a bit of work to implement this feature, but a new SQL table with a few columns (id, playerID, mentorID), as well as an additional text box on the demigod checkout page with a quick database look-up and an if-statement for price can't be too much!

Good points from the poster above me ^^^

abuggeredhedgie:

Don't count yourself out as ignored. Let's say he did respond to your post saying that you had some good ideas. It really wouldn't take much for someone to start spreading it as fact that your ideas are going into the game. That's how I see it when I make a post giving out ideas that receive no responses from SD. On the other hand, he could call you a retard and tell you that you ideas suck, but thats just bad for business. So SD keeping quiet on consumer ideas is a good thing.

Retail sales are bad? Maybe they are overpriced. Here in Germany the game costs 50 € as a retail box. This is roughly 20 € more than a digital download. This is too much for a game with only 8 maps and no single-player campaign. Also Atari did a poor job on Marketing the game.

It's a shame, because I very much respect the way Stardock treats its customers and their approach to development. It's almost a bit frustrating because I want to support the game when I see a real commitment to it, but I've got to have a taste before I feel okay with parting with my cash. I feel like there's probably a sizable group out there that feels the same with regards to a demo- they're interested, but the game has gotten such mixed press that the only way to get the sale is to prove that the game is awesome.

Quoting SumoX,

reply 14

While I appreciate the update, I still have to keep wondering where Demigod's demo is. I'm not a big RTS fan, so I'm not willing to just jump in just because I hear it's different. I need to experience that to buy in.

It's a shame, because I very much respect the way Stardock treats its customers and their approach to development. It's almost a bit frustrating because I want to support the game when I see a real commitment to it, but I've got to have a taste before I feel okay with parting with my cash. I feel like there's probably a sizable group out there that feels the same with regards to a demo- they're interested, but the game has gotten such mixed press that the only way to get the sale is to prove that the game is awesome.

My sentiments exactly. I'll need to see a solid demo before taking the leap, especially since Stardock uses a Steam-like DRM system that keeps you from selling or trading the game once you buy and patch it. It is good to see that Stardock is still giving updates, and I do hope that the demo is convincing since I like the concept behind the game.

frog you need to fold this game up if you are telling us that upcoming patches (after 1.1) are gona be based on sales.

i mean gpg are putting all their resources on sup2 so thats telling me they put out DG to get fast money.

this really is dissappointing but hey league of legends comes out in september with 40 gods, map making, clan friendly upon release none of this BS 3/4 months after release.

Im a bit dissapointed that the next 2 demigods are both assassins I would much prefer if there was one assassin and one general...

People might think this is a bad idea, but for sales boost why not release a small expansion with more skills and demigods, even a single player campaign, but like in the game guildwars people with the expansion can play with people without the expansion...

probably a bad idea on my part but just thought it was worth sharing

Retail in the US is doing well. As some know, Demigod has been in the top 10 best selling PC games for 2 months which is pretty good I'd say, especially given how much digital distribution we do.

I don't know about Europe, I'm not privy to their sales.

Quoting jinxster,

reply 16

frog you need to fold this game up if you are telling us that upcoming patches (after 1.1) are gona be based on sales.

i mean gpg are putting all their resources on sup2 so thats telling me they put out DG to get fast money.

this really is dissappointing but hey league of legends comes out in september with 40 gods, map making, clan friendly upon release none of this BS 3/4 months after release.

I hadn't heard of that game before your post, but hey that game looks interesting. I would have to say it's quite childish for my personal tastes, I'm MUCH more a fan of Demigod's aesthetic and mature style. 40 Gods though... That's an impressive starting lineup.

But wow... 40 starting heroes lol. Their support for their community content appears as though it will be great right off the bat. Hurry up GPG, use your head start wisely. They may be a tad simpler than the Demigod tallent trees but it's still a very impressive spread.

Perhaps people are being too dire in their thinking GPG/SD are going to close shop on Demigod. If retail sales are doing as well in the US as Draginol stated, and their digital sales are still doing exceptionally well also, I would like to think we will continue to get the support and new content for a long time to come.

These sort of "may as well end it now" comments don't really help show how enthusiastic the community is, and doesn't help the SD crew feel enthusiastic about us either. I'm gonna simply stay hopeful, FrogBoy has stated they have a longterm vision for the game, and so do I

for those who don't know... and before this turns into a Demigod VS League of Legends... League of Legends is done by the same people who make the first DotA map (V 1.0 - 3.0?) and then gave it up to IceFrog who made it DotA AllStar. so while Demigod is based on DotA... League of Legends is going to be DotA. so they really aren't in the same catigory... more like a distant relative

Quoting TheScottishAlien,

reply 20

for those who don't know... and before this turns into a Demigod VS League of Legends... League of Legends is done by the same people who make the first DotA map (V 1.0 - 3.0?) and then gave it up to IceFrog who made it DotA AllStar. so while Demigod is based on DotA... League of Legends is going to be DotA. so they really aren't in the same catigory... more like a distant relative

I'd not heard of this game before these posts - love the Genre, never played DotA so will be keeping an eye on League of Legends

Let's not forget the DOTA clone called Heroes of Newerth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTLgQbYVISA&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ1VFN4mP4M&feature=related

It's not officially announced yet, but it's in closed beta. It's from the makers of Savage 1 and 2 and it's a clone (remake) of DOTA, made with the permission of Icefrog. So it's DOTA on a new engine with built-in community features.

So if they don't give more content and community support for Demigod soon, and by "soon" i mean by fall 2009, then i think the game will be dead and buried. Already i've read posts on the forum that the game is getting boring fast, because of limited demigods and maps, and i started to feel it too...

Anyway, it's not SD's fault, it's GPG's fault, it's their game...They expect to give support for the game but not before the game sells good enough. And for a game with very limited content and community mp features and with a full price, this is impossible, without a quick infuse of new content. And it's the end of june and we don't have yet an ETA on the new demigods. Go figure...Not that the two new demigods will boost the sells by much, imo. The game needs way more content than this. But it could be a start, if they release them in the next month or so and continue to release more. But by the look of it, i doubt it...If it wasn't for SD (paid GPG for the 2 demigods), i don't think we would have seen them at all. When was the last time GPG released some free content for their games? Apart from 1 or 2 patches, that's all their games got after release.

Quoting abuggeredhedgie,

reply 10

Hello Frogboy,

I have a few things to say in response to this and I'd /love/ to have a response, though I know I won't get one. But I'll be spending a fair amount of time writing this so I hope you'll spend the time to read it.

As I understand it, the first 2-4 additional Demigods are going to supported by Stardock, and cost GPG roughly $100k to make each Demigod. Since the next two demigods are going to be assassin-type, I am inclined to believe at least an additional two demigods are planned for development (general). From there on, demigods may only come at an extra cost, which is understandable. Plus, at that point the game will be 3-4 months old and DLC is a common solution to revitalize a game. I think we all know the more content the better the game is, so I really support the growth of this game.

What concerns me the most is that horrible "to be honest" statement, concerning future support. Although I do prefer knowing the honest truth to being lied to and making poor decisions because of it, GPG seems to be really dropping the ball on this. Them moving on to SupCom immediately and so on, makes this seem like a bailed project. With that in mind, I'll have a hard time recommending this game to others.
etc...

I agree so much to this, but seriously they should try to go and do it the valve way.

Just look at Team Fortress 2 and it's success because there are tons of updates, if this would be upgraded often and then have a shitton of heroes it could become the best goddamn game ever.

Look at Dota, it is still the most played game on Bnet bt far, and it's hella old.

THe only reason people prefer it to demigod is the number of content, the number of heroes.

I can bet you anything that adding a lot of content fast will make more people buy the game because every goddamn player will tell to his relunctant friends: "LOOK THERE ARE HEROES NOW, BUY IT FOR FUCKS SAKE" and then you just have to wait for the cash to roll in.

Q: Where are the two new Demigods?

I think that players prefer to play assassin characters due to the problems with managing your general's army with the game's current UI. It's more fun to play the class that is easier to perform what you want it to do. Personally, when I play a general I find the game's UI too limiting in what I want to be doing with my army. I can't easily micro my minions or cast spells on them. This makes playing a general frustrating. As an assassin, the game's UI suits me better because I am more independent and I don't have an army to monitor and maintain.

You're using statistics to support a theory that people want more assassin characters... when I think there is a more fundamental issue with the game's UI that is swaying people's playing behavior.

Quoting Ferazel,

reply 24

Q: Where are the two new Demigods?
A: We're still working out the details with GPG. They're heavily into Supreme Commander 2 but they are working on more Demigods. We are leaning towards having both Demigods being assassins since they are, statistically, the most popular. One good, one evil.

I think that players prefer to play assassin characters due to the problems with managing your general's army with the game's current UI. It's more fun to play the class that is easier to perform what you want it to do. Personally, when I play a general I find the game's UI too limiting in what I want to be doing with my army. I can't easily micro my minions or cast spells on them. This makes playing a general frustrating. As an assassin, the game's UI suits me better because I am more independent and I don't have an army to monitor and maintain.

You're using statistics to support a theory that people want more assassin characters... when I think there is a more fundamental issue with the game's UI that is swaying people's playing behavior.

This is true, but it could be easily fixed. My personal favorite hero is a genral, Lord Erebus, my main complaint about his minions is that they are too far away from me and sometimes stay in the enemy line of fire to get killed, this could be fixed with easy button commands like: Regroup on me.

Also I would like minions to automatically attack whatever I attack, exept if they are intended to not do it.

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Demigod: June FAQ