Stardock/GPG please don't listen to the noobs and make this game easy mode!

By on June 11, 2009 10:43:10 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Busdude

Join Date 08/2008
+3

There are so many complainers asking for a panel to see your allies health/mana, and your enemies items. THIS SHOULD NOT BE IN THE GAME, THIS WILL MAKE IT EASY MODE.

Reason #1: This will eliminate the already small amount of communication between teammates in this game. I've played some games with my team on Vent, and very little needed to be said to dominate the other team, most of the time it was "I've low mana, or "watch out, X, this enemy is coming for you.", or "this enemy has low health". In games without vent, most of the things people type are similar to these. An example I use is if someone has a Sedna for a teammate, the Sedna player should have to take the couple of seconds to type out "i've low mana" to let them know they should not be expecting a Heal any time soon if they get damaged.

Reason #2: The game already has barely any micro-managing going on. If you're an assassin micro is practically non-existent. If you're a general, there are few times you need to: getting your minions to set off Reg's mines, getting your gunners to attack towers, and harassing someone with spirits. Beyond that there's almost nothing. If you look at pro RTS players, their mouse is constantly moving. They're monitoring everything they can: how close a certain building is to completion, how many units are still in a queue and things like that. People in this game should have to at least move their mouse over an ally to see their health, doesn't matter if they're in a cluster, you can just press CTRL to target only demigods.

Reason #3: This will make people lazier when they can just glance at the panel without bothering to type anything to let their teammates know they're at low mana,  and eliminate the need of people looking at the item list to come up with their own strategies when they can just copy the items of someone who pwned them.

Reason #4: Compared to others, this game is very easy to master. Knowing is half the battle. Literally. If you have enough experience to know that the scaled helm is better than the plate visor, you're already at a considerable advantage over someone who might not, even if you have equal skill level, micro-skills, memory, reflex etc.. A panel will make it even easier, making it practically a joke.

 

Think of other games. I haven't played Warcraft 3 in a while, but as far as I remember, allied heroes were not shown in the side panel, if you had a Paladin with Holy Light or something, you had to mouse over allies to see their health/mana. If they died, you got a message but that was about it. Few games let you see your teammate's mana. In many FPS, you need to mouse over an ally to see their health too.

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June 11, 2009 10:58:27 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

you sir, should never develop a game.

 

essentially, you are saying you'd be fine with a mini game of whack a mole before every command because its microing

 

microing shouldnt be useless shit, it should be of value. and I can set health bars already when I'm near them, so if I was far away and could see their health always it wouldnt make a huge difference. Sometimes you can't communicate with teammates, and this allows you to be more perceptive

 

in a game like this, you can't really micro all that much, or the otherside is the whole game is micro because you basically control one unit. as a general you can micro your minions a bit(chase a demigod, send at a tower, reveal map, guard flag) but things like typing in chat aren't micro. you can micro other abilities too, like you could just spam a useable item first thing, like the one that makes the ring of fire, or you could place it nicely and wait for moment. as tb you can micro spells to maximize damage and shatter, or you could spam, same with any armor deducting move. you can boulder roll to hammer slam or at a fleeing oponent, or when you are fleeing, or be a noob and use just because it is ready

 

 

basically, you have no idea what microing should be. also, overtime, everyone will know the good items, if we get a panel out, this happens sooner, and then it can be balanced

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June 11, 2009 11:03:56 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

At first I thought seeing the health would be great, I guess we are too used to it from MMORPG.

 

However, when playing Sedna, I find that it is not such a big deal. I guess part of a players skill is to monitor that.

 

I definately, think that you should not be able to see any of your enemies items or information outside of numerical health value.

The whole point of items is that your enemy cannot see them so they don't know if you are armour stacked until they get into trouble.

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June 11, 2009 11:07:54 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

There are so many complainers asking for a panel to see your allies health/mana, and your enemies items. THIS SHOULD NOT BE IN THE GAME, THIS WILL MAKE IT EASY MODE.

Dota has both and is anything but "easy mode."  It doesn't make anything easier when BOTH SIDES have it.

Reason #1: This will eliminate the already small amount of communication between teammates in this game. I've played some games with my team on Vent,

Games should not be designed for people using vent.  People *without* vent need this information.

Reason #2: The game already has barely any micro-managing going on. If you're an assassin micro is practically non-existent. If you're a general, there are few times you need to: getting your minions to set off Reg's mines, getting your gunners to attack towers, and harassing someone with spirits. Beyond that there's almost nothing. If you look at pro RTS players, their mouse is constantly moving

This game is not designed for pro RTS players - if anything it's for the opposite.  The interface is very streamlined (though flawed in different ways) compared to something like Dota, which is using the actual interface of a RTS.

Reason #3: This will make people lazier when they can just glance at the panel without bothering to type anything to let their teammates know they're at low mana,  and eliminate the need of people looking at the item list to come up with their own strategies when they can just copy the items of someone who pwned them.

You learn through observation - that's the most effective type of learning.  The current situation is like trying to teach a person to read but constantly moving the book around while they try to read the words.

Reason #4: Compared to others, this game is very easy to master. Knowing is half the battle. Literally. If you have enough experience to know that the scaled helm is better than the plate visor, you're already at a considerable advantage over someone who might not, even if you have equal skill level, micro-skills, memory, reflex etc.. A panel will make it even easier, making it practically a joke.

The truth comes out - you don't want other people to play better, since it's "so easy" for you.

What a joke.

Think of other games. I haven't played Warcraft 3 in a while, but as far as I remember, allied heroes were not shown in the side panel, if you had a Paladin with Holy Light or something, you had to mouse over allies to see their health/mana.

And you could click on them to see their level, health, mana, and items.

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June 11, 2009 11:08:05 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

and I can set health bars already when I'm near them, so if I was far away and could see their health always it wouldnt make a huge difference.

It's also what actual game designers call UI clutter. If it's not needed, it's useless. You can't do anything from far away, so seeing HP constantly is completely irrelevant. You just need to know if they're alive or not, which the minimap already shows you. You need to see hp when you're nearby, and as you said that's exactly what you get.

Clean UI > cluttered and pointless UI.

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June 11, 2009 11:14:18 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Annatar11,

and I can set health bars already when I'm near them, so if I was far away and could see their health always it wouldnt make a huge difference.
It's also what actual game designers call UI clutter. If it's not needed, it's useless. You can't do anything from far away, so seeing HP constantly is completely irrelevant. You just need to know if they're alive or not, which the minimap already shows you. You need to see hp when you're nearby, and as you said that's exactly what you get.

Clean UI > cluttered and pointless UI.

 

knowing if they are alive or not is not enough, you are saying them ahving 1 hp is the same as 8000hp, no, not at all

and a mni taskbar isn't clutter. nothing is clutter if the developer does it well and allows you to remove it, ala the current health system. now just add that for far away, like how i can see my basic stats in a mini bar or not.

 

if you think that is clutter, may god have mercy on your soul and never play another RTS for fear of simply smashing your computer in rage at how much is there

 

PS if a mini bar on side is clutter, then move that GIANT thing at the bottom, i know the spells, i dont click the buttuns, i use my keyboard, it shouldnt be there

 

 

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June 11, 2009 11:28:08 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

While I completely agree about the enemies items, I don't really understand why no ally health/mana, especially when the only in-game communication is text.

 

#1 First off, there is no voice communication included in the game. Just because you jumped on vent doesn't mean randoms can. And you REALLY think we should have to stop to type something out in the middle of combat? In almost any game this will often result in you or an ally killed, not everyone can type all that fast either.

 

2# I take it you haven't played many minion builds? In anything other than a 1vs1 match you have to micro a lot because of the horrible AI, they will constantly switch targets or run into towers, and that's just trying to attack ONE target with them, let alone sending them off into another lane to nab assists etc.

3# See #1? Basing strategy in a game on a hard to read text chat, whilst language barriers are often present is ridiculous.

4# Isn't this the same in any game? Someone who knows a lot about what they're doing but has slow reflexes is going to almost always do better than someone who's clueless or just bought the game with fast reflexes, ESPECIALLY in an RTS-esque game.

 

In many FPS, you need to mouse over an ally to see their health too

Only in most large-scale FPS games (10+ players), and that is because the screen would be cluttered otherwise. Lots of FPS games that have less players per-match show their health on screen or above their head, or heck even some immense scale ones like Planetside show all your platoon members HP on screen, which is up to 30 people and it manages to do it while keeping the screen relatively clutter free.

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June 11, 2009 11:30:48 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

ps, i think you should see ally items, i dont care so much about enemies

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June 11, 2009 11:31:19 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The ally HP thing would be a lot less of an issue if the green bar over their head wasn't COMPLETE LIES.

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June 11, 2009 11:35:02 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

There are so many complainers asking for a panel to see your allies health/mana, and your enemies items. THIS SHOULD NOT BE IN THE GAME, THIS WILL MAKE IT EASY MODE.

 

While I kinda think enemies items should always be hidden, there would be nothing wrong with having a tiny side bar showing your allies health and mana. What good will Vent do you in a Skirmish or Pantheon match when it's pretty much random now. Plus how does not having to type "OOM" make it easy mode? Let them see the health and mana bars so you can save the chat for strategy and tactics.

 

We should be making this game easier for people to get into, not harder. I know some people are a little elitest about their competative video games, but no reason to have pointless micro that just scares off newcomers. It's nice you can type fast in the heat of battle or that you can stomp people in Custom matches with your Vent friends, but I'm all for evening the playing field.

 

The ally HP thing would be a lot less of an issue if the green bar over their head wasn't COMPLETE LIES.

What? I never noticed... explain.

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June 11, 2009 11:48:53 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I think I've noticed that the green bars are correctly showing the HP for the Demigods also.  There have been a few times that I was messaging people to RUN! because the green bar showed about 5% health.  When I hovered over, he had 50%.

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June 11, 2009 11:49:55 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It took a while, but I gave to everyone that replied to this stupid thread.  There's nothing wrong with seeing your team's health/mana.  Knowing if your team is low on health across the map helps you decide if you should go help them without having to view the situation first hand.  Knowing their mana helps you know if you can count on support in a battle.  I'm not as convinced about showing items though.  That seems like UI clutter for something that is not constantly needed to know.  team mates can chat what they have during quiet time if it is important.

Anyway, here's what I obviously think the team health/mana UI should look like: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/355788

What? I never noticed... explain.

 

It displays the healthbars on some sort of log scale.  So that the demigod may still have 50% health like 2k hitpoints but the little healthbar will show as empty making you think you can kill them with just one more swing.  You have to look in the bottom right at the info panel for the DG you have the mouse on to see what their *real* status is.  This is very annoying as it tends to get you killed attacking something you think is almost dead but isn't.

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June 11, 2009 12:02:19 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

o shoot i was looking for that, i forgot you made it

http://forums.demigodthegame.com/355788

 

its nice. it shows what is needed. it's small

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June 11, 2009 12:04:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This is very annoying as it tends to get you killed attacking something you think is almost dead but isn't.
Hmm, good to know, I'll have to watch out for this in the future. May have cost me more close matches than I realize.

 

Anyway, here's what I obviously think the team health/mana UI should look like: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/355788

Seems perfect, good idea.

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June 11, 2009 12:23:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

while were adding health bars to the side *hijacks thread* can we make it possible to use abilities on allies by clicking on them? So I can see my allies health dropping then click 'shield' on their bar to save them?

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June 11, 2009 12:42:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It displays the healthbars on some sort of log scale.  So that the demigod may still have 50% health like 2k hitpoints but the little healthbar will show as empty making you think you can kill them with just one more swing.  You have to look in the bottom right at the info panel for the DG you have the mouse on to see what their *real* status is.  This is very annoying as it tends to get you killed attacking something you think is almost dead but isn't.

Or that someone on your team needs healing or that they are in trouble when they really aren't.

It's straight up misinformation and needs to be fixed.

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June 11, 2009 12:54:26 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It took a while, but I gave to everyone that replied to this stupid thread.

Oh ok so everything you happen to disagree with is stupid, gotcha.

There's nothing wrong with seeing your team's health/mana. Knowing if your team is low on health across the map helps you decide if you should go help them without having to view the situation first hand.

Yeah let's completely remove battlefield awareness from the game, and have people stare at a bar at the bottom of their screen. That's what good players do. (/sarcasm)

 

Knowing their mana helps you know if you can count on support in a battle.

Let's remove communication too, because pressing enter and typing out "no mana" and pressing enter again takes such a loooooooooong time. (/sarcasm). Not to mention if you have no mana, you're not casting abilities and your demigod doesn't stop what it's doing when you press enter, so it's not like it freezes the game for you to type out 2 goddamned words.

 

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June 11, 2009 12:55:18 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This guy's logical analysis on ally health/mana is just brilliant.

 

I think real skilled players would power their PC with a handcrank while they play Demigod.  Anything more efficient is EASY MODE, and that is final. 

 

To clarify for you, micromanagement should not be some masochistic exercise that can be streamlined further, but isn't, because of "EASY MODE."  That is retarded.

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June 11, 2009 1:02:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Yeah let's completely remove battlefield awareness from the game, and have people stare at a bar at the bottom of their screen. That's what good players do.

Yes because people who are staing at bars and not the action (or the minimap) are going to have GREAT battlefield awareness.  Thumbs up.

Let's remove communication too, because pressing enter and typing out "no mana" and pressing enter again takes such a loooooooooong time

No, you should save the communication for more important things ("chase" or "run" for example)

You shouldn't have to ask what their fricking mana is.

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June 11, 2009 1:23:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

OP Is completely wrong. There are two types of information in a game: Visible, and invisible, and there is a strict line between them. One could argue there is some middle ground, like when an enemy starts to cast a spell, but for the most part there is just information you should see, and information you shouldn't.

The entire point of a UI in a game, is to present all visible data to the player in a reasonable manner.  This is because it is information they have a right to know (Otherwise it would be INvisible, like an opponents mana, items, or gold). Improving the UI to make it as easy as possible for a user to get visible data from the game is always a good way to design a game, because it lets the player focus more on the playing of the game, and less on the clicking through menu's part.

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June 11, 2009 1:30:34 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Yeah, Bman's looks very cool. It may be cool if it could somehow fit teeny-tiny little thumbnails of your ally's equipment into each player's status box, but it would probly be too much clutter. 

About showing enemy items on the screen though...who the heck is asking for this and why? Thats kinda supposed to be a secret. Ok, in real life you can see that someone has armor on and that they have a large sword compared to your small butter knife...but this game doesn't strive for realism, which is fine by me.

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June 11, 2009 1:31:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

As Sedna, I have to type OOM constantly, and a couple allies have actually died just before I got the "M" typed.  And I KNOW my allies are always wondering what my mana level is when they see enemy Demigods near us, and they are thinking "I wonder if he has mana so I can attack".  And trying to use the current healthbars is awful (and as a healer, I mean REALLY awful).  Not to mention, you could see if an alli is in any kind of trouble at a glance.

So, the OP wants me to have to type OOM or my allies to constantly ask "Hows your mana" every 30 seconds for the entire game?  How is not doing that going to make the game easy?  Showing allies hitbars/mana can do nothing but improve this game in so many ways I can't count.

SD/GPG, please don't listen to the OP, and make this game convenient to play .  .  .

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June 11, 2009 1:33:16 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

part of me thinks the op is troll for how stupid his posts are but then again it probably took him very long to type, too much for a troll

 

 

he also said this game is easy to master, his stats say otherwise, 107wins and 46losses, and 857 exp(which is not good, you start in 1000's)

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/search/player/busdude

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June 11, 2009 1:55:57 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting woca,
part of me thinks the op is troll for how stupid his posts are but then again it probably took him very long to type, too much for a troll

 

 

he also said this game is easy to master, his stats say otherwise, 107wins and 46losses, and 857 exp(which is not good, you start in 1000's)

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/search/player/busdude

Um right I'm a troll for posting an opinion with reasoning and you're calling random people stupid which apparently isn't trolling.

Demigod actually records stats properly? This is news to me, I've hardly ever bothered to look at it, seeing as it's been messed up since day 1, I don't even know where experience comes from. Don't flame my record, I play 95% of my games with PuG teammates

 

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June 11, 2009 2:11:14 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Bringing up personal statistics on someone who is proposing an argument doesn't make his argument invalid.

However, this game does need to be more team-friendly. I don't think we should see enemy items, but allied health bars (that work!!) and mana bars would really be helpful. I'm ok with having to mouse over to see mana bars, though.

The health bars above their heads are not accurate and pretty much worthless since they can't be trusted.

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June 11, 2009 2:17:19 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Shadow_Avenger,
Bringing up personal statistics on someone who is proposing an argument doesn't make his argument invalid.

However, this game does need to be more team-friendly. I don't think we should see enemy items, but allied health bars (that work!!) and mana bars would really be helpful. I'm ok with having to mouse over to see mana bars, though.

The health bars above their heads are not accurate and pretty much worthless since they can't be trusted.

 

it does when his argument says this game is easy to master. you can make that argument if you have mastered this easily or can show that many people have mastered it, he failed to do both

 

he essentially failed to support his argument in everyway for his sake, i hope he is trolling

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