Getting back to Elemental

By on May 19, 2009 11:47:54 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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Midleavel_Farm_Test2 As Elemental players know, I had been on Elemental since early this year. Then…Demigod was released and the online experience for that game has been a total cluster.  So I had to “assign myself” to Demigod to figure out what the deal was and make sure it got fixed.

In my view, too many moving parts. I’m not a huge fan of multiplayer-centric games in the first place. I’m particularly not a fan of peer to peer multiplayer-centric games on the PC because on the PC, unlike on the console, the developer is stuck writing this stuff – or in Demigod’s case, the publisher had to go out and license stuff which turned out to be a disaster. 

But now my time on Demigod is starting to come to an end – at least in terms of it dominating my life.  I’m looking forward to working on a game that we’re both developing and publishing so I don’t have to take a beating for things I can’t really do anything about.

Ramifications

I had to assign both Cari and Jesse (our two top game developers) to Demigod to largely rewrite the multiplayer system. This will have an impact on Elemental’s schedule. Sorry. People paid good money for Demigod and you know me, I am not about assigning blame or caring whose fault something is so my attitude is that the problem had to be solved quickly.

They’re still on Demigod this week working with developer Gas Powered Games on a slew of new APIs that will let the game be expanded well into the future. Then they can get back to Elemental next week.

Demigod’s impact on Elemental

The good news is that because we ended up having to develop our own multiplayer module to help with Demigod, we can use that on Elemental.  Now, to be crystal clear: Elemental is a single player centric game. It will have multiplayer but to be honest, I’m not willing to sacrifice a single feature of the game for multiplayer.  So if multiplayer is your main thing, you might as well stay away from Elemental.

That said, here are a few things that multiplayer in Elemental will have:

1. Multiplayer games will be hosted by us. Period. No peer to peer. Not even hosted on the user’s box. Our servers. No ports, no proxies, nothing. We’re hosting it.

2. I’m killing off the bots concept. People hate them. I thought they were cool but they’re too much work only to be hated. So there won’t be artificial players.

3. We will support empires (clans), scheduled games, and group join from the start since those features will get added (by us) to Demigod.

Fewer moving parts

We are revisiting the way the economy works in Elemental to simplify it.  There’s been some positive developments that I can’t talk about yet. The short version though is there will be likely be a lot lot lot more story to Elemental than anything we’ve done before.  Each sand box game should feel like an epic story if we do it right. We’ll see.

Release dates

I can say that Beta 0 is not going to happen in June now.  We might be able to do an Alpha then but that will only go out to a very tiny number of people (maybe 100 tops).  I’m reserving 10 places and the rest will come from the pre-order pool as a lottery with points given to those who have GalCiv II + Sins + Demigod.  Beta 0 would likely be July at this point but I’ll know more at the end of the week.

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May 31, 2009 1:24:31 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm a bit late to this train, and I didn't went through all pages, but here's my two cents anyway...

Quoting ,

That said, here are a few things that multiplayer in Elemental will have:
1. Multiplayer games will be hosted by us. Period. No peer to peer. Not even hosted on the user’s box. Our servers. No ports, no proxies, nothing. We’re hosting it.

Excellent. Depending on peer-to-peer for multiplaying sucks an awful lot for someone that lives far away from where the action is. I wouldn't have bought Demigod if it hadn't come from Stardock and the extraordinary communicative reaction you had when things became FUBAR. I have been able to play MMO's well with servers based in the US, so I would expect a similar experience.

2. I’m killing off the bots concept. People hate them. I thought they were cool but they’re too much work only to be hated. So there won’t be artificial players.

Bad Demigod!

Reconsider this, please... First for Demigod, I really hope that's not a decision based on a really loud minority of hardcore gamers. Multiplayer games are often riddled with these kind of complaints.

Secondly, Demigod and Elemental are completely different games. I think that bots, especially with the kind of AI that Stardock can make, would have a lot more space to shine here. 

- It would work just fine for a non fast-paced and/or complex multiplayer experience. It's cool to go after the AI first or use it as a buffer to your main opponent(s) - in Demigod, the players are moving all over in a rather confined/non-random place.

- It adds strategic depth for such a game to have more factions involved (instead of just two real players).

- A real player could actually join/re-join (on lost connection) an on-going game by replacing the AI (with the other player's consent or by right of play); or if a player quits/loses connection the AI could take over (and maybe even do a better job), helping to retain the experience.

For example: It's not good to be playing a game for hours then to see players leave because they rage-quit or lost connection. It's also not good for the player that was doing a great game to get disconnected and then being unable to re-join.

These are actual advantages for the kind of game in development, and a similar implementation has been working just fine with Civ IV. The game could even have more multiplayer depth by giving options for the host player / clans to choose the rules by which bots could be used. Stardock could then make a much better decision on the subject of bots for this and any other future games.

Please, give it another go at this...

3. We will support empires (clans), scheduled games, and group join from the start since those features will get added (by us) to Demigod.

Thank you Demigod!

We are revisiting the way the economy works in Elemental to simplify it.  There’s been some positive developments that I can’t talk about yet. The short version though is there will be likely be a lot lot lot more story to Elemental than anything we’ve done before.  Each sand box game should feel like an epic story if we do it right. We’ll see.

Economy: keeping it simple and fun without dumbing it down too much has always been a winning combination.

Epic story on sandbox: Wow... No one has been able to pull that off yet. Epic story immersion in a non-linear/randomized sandbox game would be the stuff of gaming legend! Please, please make it so!

Release dates
I can say that Beta 0 is not going to happen in June now. We might be able to do an Alpha then but that will only go out to a very tiny number of people (maybe 100 tops).  I’m reserving 10 places and the rest will come from the pre-order pool as a lottery with points given to those who have GalCiv II + Sins + Demigod.  Beta 0 would likely be July at this point but I’ll know more at the end of the week.

*Raises hands to show interest in the Alpha; crosses fingers for lottery*

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May 31, 2009 1:45:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting aLap,


2. I’m killing off the bots concept. People hate them. I thought they were cool but they’re too much work only to be hated. So there won’t be artificial players.

Bad Demigod!

Reconsider this, please... First for Demigod, I really hope that's not a decision based on a really loud minority of hardcore gamers. Multiplayer games are often riddled with these kind of complaints.

Secondly, Demigod and Elemental are completely different games. I think that bots, especially with the kind of AI that Stardock can make, would have a lot more space to shine here. 

- It would work just fine for a non fast-paced and/or complex multiplayer experience. It's cool to go after the AI first or use it as a buffer to your main opponent(s) - in Demigod, the players are moving all over in a rather confined/non-random place.

- It adds strategic depth for such a game to have more factions involved (instead of just two real players).

- A real player could actually join/re-join (on lost connection) an on-going game by replacing the AI (with the other player's consent or by right of play); or if a player quits/loses connection the AI could take over (and maybe even do a better job), helping to retain the experience.

I get the impression you're misunderstanding what he meant by bots. You will be able to play multiplayer games with AI players, and there will probably be the option to replace a dropped player, or a player who left the game, with an AI. The bots frogboy was talking about were the proposed persistent bots, with stats and all.

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May 31, 2009 2:23:05 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting pigeonpigeon,

I get the impression you're misunderstanding what he meant by bots. You will be able to play multiplayer games with AI players, and there will probably be the option to replace a dropped player, or a player who left the game, with an AI. The bots frogboy was talking about were the proposed persistent bots, with stats and all.

That's what you get for not being on top of things. I had just read the other thread showing that the game starts with only the player, so "bots" would be the AI starting in a similar way. Being not the case, thanks for clearing things up.

I did some further research, and I think that Frogboy was talking about this?

One of those options is the persistent world: Empire vs. Kingdom.  In it, players choose a side - The Empire or The Kingdom.  Having chosen that, players then play on-line with various other players who are trying to help their side - The Empire or The Kingdom conquer the world of Elemental.  Each battle takes place on a tiny part of the overall world of Elemental.  Their opponents and friends are a mixture of real users and AI users based on what is necessary.

The AI work in Elemental is a little bit beyond what we've done before.  We are aiming to provide virtual AI players who are competing in the game like a real player would.  These virtual AI players would be able to join games (if no one else is available, real people get first dibs on joining games) and would play much like real people do (GalCiv players have an idea of what we mean).

Still, these are different games. The AI (as in bot, bots) could be there to balance the scale on the number of players from both sides. Maybe even giving way for real players to join on-the-fly and replace the AI. Maybe this is still the type of game where well-made bots could shine. That might be fun. But then again, I needed to see the different variables at play to make a better judgement, instead of just conjecturing about it...

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May 31, 2009 3:16:28 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Sorry if it's been said before (only read the first page), but killing off bots for the A.I. would be a terrible thing to waste. The only multiplayer strategy games that me and my group of friends play are Sins of a Solar Empire and Civ IV with hard/king difficulty compstomps. Elemental still looks really fascinating but not having any A.I. players for multiplayer available would be a travesty. I know they're difficult to program but most 4X games we play are best when you stomp an impossibly hard A.I. rather than facing each other.

 

I humly request that the A.I. be left in multiplayer. Similar to Age of Wonders, Civ IV and Sins, having an AI to fight with friends is some of the most fun I have with gaming.

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May 31, 2009 3:21:41 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Entorwellian,
Sorry if it's been said before (only read the first page), but killing off bots for the A.I. would be a terrible thing to waste. The only multiplayer strategy games that me and my group of friends play are Sins of a Solar Empire and Civ IV with hard/king difficulty compstomps. Elemental still looks really fascinating but not having any A.I. players for multiplayer available would be a travesty. I know they're difficult to program but most 4X games we play are best when you stomp an impossibly hard A.I. rather than facing each other.

Sigh. Bot != AI. There will be AI in this game. Of course there will be AI. This is primarily a single-player game, how would you expect that to work out with no AI? Really, use your head

A couple posts back someone else said more or less the same as you just did, so I guess I'll repeat my response... The bots he was talking about were the proposed persistent bots that would have their own stats, and join games like people would. Apparently they were hated in Demigod, so they've been axed for Elemental.

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May 31, 2009 5:42:30 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting pigeonpigeon,

Sigh. Bot != AI. There will be AI in this game. Of course there will be AI. This is primarily a single-player game, how would you expect that to work out with no AI? Really, use your head

A couple posts back someone else said more or less the same as you just did, so I guess I'll repeat my response... The bots he was talking about were the proposed persistent bots that would have their own stats, and join games like people would. Apparently they were hated in Demigod, so they've been axed for Elemental.

poor pidgeon

its gunna be k

 

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May 31, 2009 5:43:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting psychoak,

This wouldn't mean they're hosting all the content, it would mean you start a game and their server manages your connection and puts you together, instead of having one of you be the host.  I believe that's the method Battlenet uses.  They could restrict you to only using their servers to play multiplayer, but they wouldn't have to.

The game creator acts as host in Battle.net games (except for Diablo 2 "closed" games, where more things are done server-side to reduce cheating, and obviously World of Warcraft). Battle.net is actually an IRC/matchmaking service more then it is a game host.

That is the model I want them to use for Elemental. TBS games are MUCH less stressful on connections to host then RTS games are, and it's a lot more flexible for players then having Stardock host every game.

 

 

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May 31, 2009 10:15:34 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting pigeonpigeon,

Sigh. Bot != AI. There will be AI in this game. Of course there will be AI.

A couple posts back someone else said more or less the same as you just did, so I guess I'll repeat my response... The bots he was talking about were the proposed persistent bots that would have their own stats, and join games like people would. Apparently they were hated in Demigod, so they've been axed for Elemental.

So, there will be no persistent bots. Does everyone think that's better considering the kind of game Elemental will be, and the decision coming from a completely different type of game?

Quoting Tridus,

The game creator acts as host in Battle.net games (except for Diablo 2 "closed" games, where more things are done server-side to reduce cheating, and obviously World of Warcraft). Battle.net is actually an IRC/matchmaking service more then it is a game host.

That is the model I want them to use for Elemental. TBS games are MUCH less stressful on connections to host then RTS games are, and it's a lot more flexible for players then having Stardock host every game.
 

The peer-to-peer model is also excellent for all the counterfeit copies out there of Demigod. Pirates can thoroughly enjoy a multiplayer experience without paying a dime for it.

Impulse will allow players from around the world to buy Elemental, as it was with Demigod. Being server side offers a world of advantages for a much wider array of people, and to legitimate players only. Stardock can also put to good use the network infrastructure already in place (and the flipping 1Gigabit/s connection they invested in *me net junkie, me jealous*).

MMO's such as Eve Online proved that thousands of players can be on the same server cluster at the same time and without much issue. And if you're still able to host your own games, to a greater number of people, where lag is a direct issue just to the person(s) suffering from it, what's the big deal?

Being server side also means the minimum of Router/Modem/NIC tweaking. I had to totally reconfigure my router in order to play Demigod well, whereas with WoW, Guild Wars, Eve, I had the SPI on, TCP/UDP filtering, no ping recognition and had been able to play those games just fine.

I would expect some initial issues with the servers (and the admins) adapting to the outpour of players, but nothing on the scale of what happened with Demigod and the worldwide peer-to-peering debacle.

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May 31, 2009 1:56:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting psychoak,
I suggest you moderate your assumptions until you have clarification.  I think you've gone and jumped to the wrong conclusions.

 

What they learned from Demigod.  People are morons.  In a less politically incorrect statement, people have screwball isp's run by idiots, don't know how to use their routers, have routers designed by idiots, don't know how to use their firewalls, etcetera.

 

P2P gave them so many headaches with Demigod because everyone with a moron factor had a connection problem.  Server-client will still give them headaches, less headaches, but headaches still.  With server client, the idiot factor usually only matters for the host.  They also caused themselves more headaches by trying to stupid proof the system and preventing even the people that know what they're doing from having fool proof connectivity.  Basically, you can't win.  There are going to be connection problems, and people are going to blame you for them even if it's their own fault.

 

Enter server hosting by them.  Assuming they aren't morons, no more moron factor in hosting.  There are oddball issues that will still nail the occasional user, issues I've never actually heard explained with any satisfaction, but they will largely eliminate them.

 

This wouldn't mean they're hosting all the content, it would mean you start a game and their server manages your connection and puts you together, instead of having one of you be the host.  I believe that's the method Battlenet uses.  They could restrict you to only using their servers to play multiplayer, but they wouldn't have to.

 

And I suggest you re-read both the original post and my own. You obviously didn't.

The original post CLEARLY states that multiplayer games will only be hosted on the Stardock servers. No ports, no proxies, not even on the same box. Read that last bit there? It means NO HOTSEAT and NO PLAY BY EMAIL.The post clearly states that ALL multiplayer will be hosted on their servers, period. You will like it or you will die.

 

This is on par with forcing users to install viruses along with the game, like so many publishers do, or not releasing any editing tools for the game. It's that stupid. Given that a hotseat game only requires the capability to set two or more factions to human control when setting up a game, it's even more ridiculous that it's not allowed. PBEM, again, is hotseat with forced saves between turns; the users then email the save file to the next player.

 

Hotseat and PBEM have no servers, proxies, or ports to deal with. At the worst, you have to support whatever obscure email client someone may be using. Or make sure the save files end up in a easily located folder, like MyDocuments.

 

For that matter, the P2P must have been fundamentatally flawed from the start in Demigod if there were issues. Games as far back as the original Call of Duty have no issues with P2P connections; I know this for a fact.

 

PBEM and Hotseat has been a basic facet of turn based strategy pretty much since the internet and email accounts became widespread enough for people to find other players and coordinate games. I played PBEM in Heroes of Might and Magic I, Steel Panthers: World at War, and Age of Wonders. Any TBS without it is not worth consideration for purchase, period.

Also, save for the mentions of an editor, and user-made content, I didn't mention any official content whatsoever being hosted only on their servers. Again, read the posts in question.

 

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May 31, 2009 2:10:00 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting azraelck,

And I suggest you re-read both the original post and my own. You obviously didn't.

 

And I suggest you re-read the rest of the thread, since the two of you are just talking at each other now. A good chunk of the thread is trying to convince them to change their minds and put LAN/PBEM/Hotseat/Whatever back in (if it's actually been removed, but since Hotseat/PBEM don't actually require multiplayer connections like a live game does, they could easily have never been included in the restriction).

This isn't two days until release, it's so early in development that all of this can change.

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May 31, 2009 2:13:41 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting azraelck,

And I suggest you re-read both the original post and my own. You obviously didn't.

The original post CLEARLY states that multiplayer games will only be hosted on the Stardock servers. No ports, no proxies, not even on the same box. Read that last bit there? It means NO HOTSEAT and NO PLAY BY EMAIL.The post clearly states that ALL multiplayer will be hosted on their servers, period. You will like it or you will die. 

And I suggest you learn that people, especially when frustrated, don't always use the best phrasing. The post says that there won't be hosting on the user's box. Hotseat requires no hosting, as there is nothing to host, and thus jumping to the conclusion that Stardock intends to nix hotseat for no reason whatsoever (and then behaving as if the sky is falling) is, quite frankly, childish.

Whether Brad intends to cut out LAN/PBEM multiplayer is also not entirely certain. It would definitely be a mistake, and I hope both make it in.

My point is, Brad made a somewhat vague statement in a post born out of frustration and you are acting like a spoiled little child in response. Before you go threatening that the game is worthless and may as well not exist if it doesn't have PBEM in response to vague frustrated remarks, find out if the worst case scenario is really intended. We haven't had any clarifications, so we don't really know anything besides that direct IP multiplayer is likely out of the equation. Tremendous support has already been shown for the inclusion of LAN/PBEM (and even direct IP) multiplayer, and childish apocalyptic rants aren't going to help our case.

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May 31, 2009 3:01:10 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I think if there was going to be hotseat and PBEM Stardock would have said something by now. Judging by the screenshots there is no end turn button like in Gal Civ 2. Of course lots could change between now and release. This game could be released as a real-time strategy game and I would still be happy

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May 31, 2009 3:31:25 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Hadberz,
This game could be released as a real-time strategy game and I would still be happy
I wouldn't.

I really cannot wait for the beta. And not just to be able to play it but to really start seeing what Stardock is trying to make and in which way we can offer the best feedback.

<--- needs Hotseat even if it's just to test the new races for a personal mod

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May 31, 2009 3:44:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Hadberz,
I think if there was going to be hotseat and PBEM Stardock would have said something by now. Judging by the screenshots there is no end turn button like in Gal Civ 2. Of course lots could change between now and release. This game could be released as a real-time strategy game and I would still be happy

Stardock's silence isn't as significant as you might think; don't read into it too much. I've been a regular of these forums since the first day, and there really isn't a pattern in their silences. I guess it probably means 'no commitment' more often than not, but there's no way to guess which way they'll go.

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May 31, 2009 3:56:07 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I take Stardock's silences as "We are working. We will let you know something as soon as we have something to tell you.".

They have learned some lessons/tricks from Demigod so surely they are also trying to take them into account for Elemental (about design of features, not about p2p multiplayer)

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May 31, 2009 4:44:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

PBEM I bet will be in, and if it isn't, it is so niche it would be so insignificant to sales. I hope it is in, not because I will use it but because I want it to be accessible to as many people as possible to play in the most ways possible. But people that are saying OMG if this game doesn't have PBEM it should not even be made, that's just ridiculous. TBS is my favorite genre and I have NEVER played by email.

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May 31, 2009 4:51:52 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I've started a new post at the linkbelow which discusses some options for some of the concerns expressed here.  Thoughts and feedback welcome as always.

http://forums.elementalgame.com/354396

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May 31, 2009 5:00:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It surprises me that anybody came to the conclusion that LAN games are out. Demigod did not have problems with LAN at all; it's the whole reason GameRanger and Hamachi work fine. PBEM though is new to me, so I have no idea there...

 

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May 31, 2009 5:48:07 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It's the weekend, their silence has a definite pattern regarding weekends.

 

Hotseat, can't really see it working with what we've heard on the combat system.  If it's implemented, it would have to be a restricted form, much like you can't do tactical combat in pbem at all without a huge amount of delay from playing out all the combat moves in individual battles.  You just can't do simultaneous turn systems on one computer.  They'd need to either cut it entirely, or include a desyncronized system for use with it.

 

And I suggest you re-read both the original post and my own. You obviously didn't.

 

Context is your friend.  Use it.  You have jumped to a conclusion without a clear train of information to reach it.  It is one of many possible conclusions, the one I listed being much more likely than the totality of your rant.  Context leads not towards an absolutist position on content control and such.  It's possible Stardock has decided to go copyright nazi on us, but the probability of that is more along the lines of the sun going nova tomorrow than anything resembling certainty.

 

Going crazy and screaming about corporate conspiracies is something you should reserve for after you get clarification.  Being an ignorant moron on networking issues doesn't help either.  Sorry, anyone that thinks he's using a P2P connection method in a first person shooter has absolutely zero clue.  When your PS3 brochure tells you it's P2P, it's not talking about the game connections.  They have a P2P network with the developers servers so that the entire bloody thing doesn't go down if their connection is lost.  People that aren't morons and know how to configure their own networks.  When you go to play Call of Duty, you're connecting to a server, as a client.

 

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May 31, 2009 5:53:34 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting psychoak,
Hotseat, can't really see it working with what we've heard on the combat system.  If it's implemented, it would have to be a restricted form, much like you can't do tactical combat in pbem at all without a huge amount of delay from playing out all the combat moves in individual battles.  You just can't do simultaneous turn systems on one computer.  They'd need to either cut it entirely, or include a desyncronized system for use with it. 

Or force all combat to be auto-resolved. Or at least all inter-player combat.

I don't think most people who play hotseat would mind this too much. Hotseat play does not lend itself particularly well to competitive play, anyway. Speaking for myself, I only play hotseat cooperatively. although it has been a long time since I've played hotseat anything; HoMM III was the last game I ever really played in hotseat, and only a while ago when my family only had one computer good enough to run it.

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October 9, 2009 4:09:59 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

In turn based games, in multiplayer, 75-90% of games will have AI.

That 25 - 10% situations without in-game AI are when a large group of people together, or usually quicker games on smaller maps.

saying only stardock/impulse and what-not hosting games does indeed off-place me somewhat, although only because using one massive server never really seems like a good idea to me, or rather its what I spend most of my multiplayer days to avoid doing.

Never played Demigod, probably never will. Although I am sure that both are very different games.

That being said, I will now extrapolate what I think bots are/ ect. Hopefully bots aren't another name for any in-game nation AI, as alot of what helps games is having more nations in-play than the number of people currently gathered for a game. I think at any point during an elemental game, a human player should be able to take over ANY AI nation in-game. AI would also take over a team if the human player leaves. In this way the AI would be a prevalent default form whenever the human is not present. This sort of AI is primarily a place-holder, although is a necessary, NECESSARY evil in a turn based, massive empire style of strategy game.

That being said, I hope its fun to play on the Stardock server. I don't see the motivations for such a move, but then again I have not played Demi-god, so maybe that is a pre-req.

 

EDIT: should I make some sort of sentence about Thread Necromancy here?

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October 9, 2009 4:45:41 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in esence, aren't you fighting a "bot" every time you play against the AI in a single player game?

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October 9, 2009 4:58:10 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

thats what I was wondering too ... hopefully a "bot" is separate from a normal AI, in that its a lurker of the server lobby as opposed to an actor added to the game by the game "host." In that case, it would probably only be necessary if a nation in Elemental could not easily switch between AI control and human control, but rather a separate "bot" function would have to control AI's you might think a human would join as at a later date.

Of course, if "bot" merely meant any and all AI ... then elemental multiplayer would sadly be about a fourth of its potential.

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October 13, 2009 4:14:20 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Tasunke,
thats what I was wondering too ... hopefully a "bot" is separate from a normal AI, in that its a lurker of the server lobby as opposed to an actor added to the game by the game "host." In that case, it would probably only be necessary if a nation in Elemental could not easily switch between AI control and human control, but rather a separate "bot" function would have to control AI's you might think a human would join as at a later date.

Of course, if "bot" merely meant any and all AI ... then elemental multiplayer would sadly be about a fourth of its potential.

 

You missed this:

 

Quoting Frogboy,
Let's be clear on the bots:

You can have AI players in MP if you CHOOSE.

But we won't be inserting artificial players (bots) into games unless users explicitly ask for them. Before, we planned to have bots operating on their own server looking for MP games to join complete with their own chat capabilities.

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October 13, 2009 4:57:19 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

You guy also missed that they aren't implementing said bots and that this thread is 5months old

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