Demigod: So what the hell happened?

By on May 18, 2009 7:30:13 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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I’ll be writing a lot more on this particular issue in the coming weeks as I’ve had more time to review internal reports.

For those of you just joining us let me bring you up to speed.

Our story so far…

Demigod, a high profile, AAA action-strategy-role playing game was released on April 14th. Well, it was supposed to be released on April 14th but actually got released at Gamestop stores early due to a…miscommunication between their corporate HQ and their brick and mortar outlets.  This wouldn’t normally have been that big of a deal except this happened to be over Easter weekend and the release servers for the game weren’t yet up. Moreover, it also caused the “warez” version (i.e. there’s no copy protection on the game so the warez version meant someone bravely zipping it up and putting it up on a torrent) resulting in over 100,000 people using it – at once – before we were even back from Easter break. Suffice to say, it wasn’t a pretty picture.

For the first few days, we struggled to migrate people to a different set of servers that only legitimate users had access to. This took about 48 hours.  But during this brief window, the game was basically unplayable because you couldn’t even get online – at all.  We got whacked with some pretty negative first week reviews not surprisingly.

But our woes weren’t over yet. It became pretty clear that the NAT servers (the servers that negotiate the connection between player A and player couldn’t handle the # of users on the game resulting in a horrible online experience.  As other people have pointed out, this sort of thing isn’t unique to Demigod (i.e. plenty of other games have had rough online launches) but the big difference is that those other games had a lot more single player content whereas Demigod relies more on its multiplayer experience than most games so it was a much bigger problem.

Like most games, Demigod uses a lot of licensed code. Demigod’s awesome 3D models are powered party by Granny 3D. The videos in the game are powered by Bink. The sound is powered by Fmod. And the network connectivity was powered by Raknet.  These are all very good libraries and used by major publishers. 

But Demigod’s network requirements are somewhat unusual and demanding. First, Demigod is peer-to-peer and not client server. Everyone connects to everyone. Second, the number of people playing is unusual. Yes, some people do play 4 on 4 games of Supreme Commander or Company of Heroes but typically they’re 1 on 1 or 2 on 2. The more connections, the more complex.

The result was that it was a nightmare to get games going online.

The problems

Demigod’s connectivity problems have basically boiled down to 1 bad design decision and 1 architectural limitation.  The bad design decision was made in December of 2008 when it was decided to have the network library hand off sockets to Demigod proper.  In most games, the connection between players is handled purely by one source. For instance, in Supreme Commander, GPGNet handled the entire connection.

So in Demigod, on launch day, Alice would host a game. Tom would be connected to Alice by the network library and then that socket would be handed to Demigod.  Then, Alice and Tom would open a new socket to listen for more players to join in.  As a result, a user might end up using a half dozen ports and sockets which some routers didn’t like and it just made things incredibly complex to connect people and put a lot of strain on the servers to manage all those connections.

Now, the architectural limitation came from the way the network library’s database handled things.  We still don’t have a clear idea on why it was so limited but this was the overwhelming problem that only got resolved late last week. Here’s how it works:

Alice hosts a game. In doing so, she sends a message to the NAT server (as well as our servers). Tom wants to join so Tom clicks join and it tells the NAT server to begin connecting them.  But, it turned out that a relatively small number of people online at once would quickly result in a huge delay in messages being sent back and forth. For instance, when Tom clicks join it sends a message to the server to tell it to start connecting Tom and Alice.  But Alice might not get that message for 30 or 40 seconds. That means, for that entire time, Tom and Alice are “attempting to connect” but haven’t even really started because Alice hasn’t even gotten the message.  As more people tried to join the game, that delay could get worse and worse. If someone left the game, it could take that amount of time for the server to realize that player had left (meanwhile it was trying to connect them).

Why did it take 3 weeks to fix?

It took us a solid week to realize that this was the problem because we assumed the issue was compatibility with routers or ISPs. We worked with people to set up their port forwarding, etc.  Eventually we started looking at the time stamps but even then, when we saw the 30 to 40 second delays there was an assumption that that difference in time was only because the servers and our machines weren’t time synced.  On one of the late nights here, I began insisting on having the machines all synced via one of the atomic clock services and then we became horrified at what we found: A 30 to 40 second delay between the time the server processed a message and actually sending a response.  That time delay during peek hours could get over a minute. 

Luckily, the developer of Raknet was here last week and was able to help us dig into the bowels of the code and we were able to find ways to mitigate this problem.  Much of this is simply because Demigod is peer to peer and so it means there’s a lot of messages being sent back and forth.  A lot of our work has been in reducing the # of messages needed to connect people and writing a new network layer that was designed for P2P specifically.

PLUS, we had to write something that network gurus can tell you is pretty damn cool: Proxy sockets. So that we wouldn’t have to hand off sockets, the Impulse team was recruited onto the project and they came up with a way to not have to hand over sockets to Demigod without having to change Demigod.

Now, with that much new code, it wasn’t perfect. Friday’s update resolved things for most people but it also created problems for some people who hadn’t problems before and it caused some grief for people who were trying to play Pantheon games. Plus, you still have people who simply have difficult Internet connectivity that still have to be resolved but now you’re down to like 5% of the base.

Today and later

Right now, we’re staging an update that addresses what was mentioned above. It’ll either get released this evening or tomorrow.

On Wednesday, the plan (not promise) is to release the update that supports Proxies.  That update will also support some new command line switches:

/proxyonly (if you know you won’t be able to connect normally you can just have us host your traffic)

/noAI (will tell Pantheon and Skirmish to not allow AI players in even if you have to wait longer) – this may not make it into Wednesday but I’m hoping.

/localproxy (if you have a monster machine with a really really good network connection you can let people who can’t connect route through you which lowers lag – only do this if you have a very fast UP speed).

What else?

There are still some other things on our short list of things we need addressed and developer Gas Powered Games is working on them.

These include:

  1. When people quit (for whatever reason) it looks like they’re disconnecting (complete with annoying 30 second disconnect dialog)
  2. We need a concede option.
  3. We need favor points and favor items properly stored.
  4. We need to make sure that the stats recorded are more accurate (it’s been flakey).
  5. After using an ability, some Demigods stop moving until manually given another command.

GPG is working on those 4 items and more but I don’t have an ETA yet but I’m pushing for this week.

What about the future? An FAQ

Q: What is publisher Stardock planning to do for Demigod players?

A: The plan is to send out an email this week to users who purchased Demigod prior to today with a coupon for 50% off of Demigod that they can give to their friends.   In addition, next week we will begin sending coupons for other things on Impulse to active Demigod players to help ensure a vibrant multiplayer community. We plan to keep doing that periodically.

Q: What about my pantheon stats?

A: As soon as we feel comfortable with the robustness of the stats, we are going to launch the second Epoch which will see the stats reset (the previous stats will be archived under the 1st Epoch).

image 

As those who visit the Pantheon area know, we are taking this stuff pretty seriously.  We are looking at this from the long-term.

Q: When will more Demigods be released?

A: 2 Demigods are in development. I will have a better idea later this week when I meet with GPG on that.

Q: What about modding?

A: We have discussed this issue with GPG and I can’t make promises on this but I can tell you that what we would like to allow is for people to mod AI players (LUA) and then submit them online and let them compete to see how they do. This would encourage good AI modding.  We would also like to support mod support in Demigod proper where the Pantheon would support players downloading officially “blessed” mods and be able to play them in game.  I don’t have any ETA on this yet.

Q: What about a demo?

A: We’d probably already have a demo out if we hadn’t been messing with this.  But yes, there will be a demo.  In all likelyhood, it will probably be a multiplayer only demo since we want to reassure people when the demo comes out that connectivity is totally nailed and bullet proof.  This is different than our original plan which would have been a single player only demo with 2 demigods and 1 map. So we’re still thinking about how to do this in a way that has the most benefit to us and potential customers.

Q: How are Demigod’s sales?

A: They’re considerably better than Galactic Civilizations II’s but slightly less than Sins of a Solar Empire at the same time.  However, there are a lot of variables. Besides the online MP debacle, you have an April release versus a February release, you have a MP-centric game versus a SP-centric game (The most players I’ve ever seen online with Sins is around 500 whereas right now, mid afternoon on a Monday there’s 2065 players playing online). You also have the review difference: Sins has a review average of 88. Demigod’s average is 78 (still pretty good). If you took out the first week reviews the average jumps to 84.  Overall though, it looks like Demigod will hit 100,000 units sold before the official European release.

Q: What has Stardock learned from the Demigod release?

A: We’ve learned that you can’t treat networking as just another thing to plug in like you would a sound library or even a 3D engine. It’s a whole different animal.  With Elemental (our next game), it’s single-player focused but its MP will be server based (and I mean we literally host the game). After Demigod, I don’t ever want to hear the words “socket” or “port” again.

Q: What is your honest outlook for Demigod?

A: You know the expected marketing answer.  But my view is, the difficult launch definitely hurt the game. There’s no way around it.  Besides upsetting a lot of people anxious for a good multiplayer game, you also have the fact that those early negative reviews are going to linger.  1UP promised to re-review the game when this mess is straightened out and so I’ll be talking to them this week about that.  But still, Gamespot (6.5) and IGN (7.5) are going to linger. That’s the breaks.  One could argue we released a game that wasn’t done (we thought it was done) and that’s what you get.

Now, that said, I do think long-term the game is in good shape.  First, we will be putting a lot of effort to build the online community.  Scheduled games, strong team and clan support, pro tournaments, matchmaker filtering (let people filter out people they don’t want to play) are all coming sooner rather than later.  Those things will help immensely. 

A lot of Demigod’s long-term success depends, in my opinion, on whether we’re able to “perfect” Demigod’s online experience before a viable alternative shows up.  Right now, Demigod has the luxury of being one of the few modern RTS games that is so well suited to playing online.  It also lucked out in that Atari doesn’t release it internationally until later this month which means a huge influx of new players.

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cwsault
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June 7, 2009 1:53:18 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

People say your Game is broken and i think so too.I don´t care about your 100 Fanboys in this Forum.

Is that the American Way?Cheating people and say: Yeah i´m Free i do what i want to do and bring uncomplete stuff out.

And now i read these things that Stardock planing with Demigod.This should already in a Game for 50€.

Now i am a dick too?

 

 

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June 7, 2009 2:09:15 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting DonofWar,
People say your Game is broken and i think so too.I don´t care about your 100 Fanboys in this Forum.

Is that the American Way?Cheating people and say: Yeah i´m Free i do what i want to do and bring uncomplete stuff out.

And now i read these things that Stardock planing with Demigod.This should already in a Game for 50€.

Now i am a dick too?
Perhaps there's a reason they've been working ungodly hours to fix it?

 

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June 7, 2009 2:25:49 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

  

Quoting Kitkun,

   Perhaps there's a reason they've been working ungodly hours to fix it?
 

Someone did not do his Homework and now has to stay in after school

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June 7, 2009 10:51:52 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting DonofWar,
People say your Game is broken and i think so too.I don´t care about your 100 Fanboys in this Forum.

Is that the American Way?Cheating people and say: Yeah i´m Free i do what i want to do and bring uncomplete stuff out.

And now i read these things that Stardock planing with Demigod.This should already in a Game for 50€.

Now i am a dick too?
 

It's not their game. The game was made by GPG, 90% of the fault is theirs. SD tried to fix their mistakes, but it's not much they can do at this stage.

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June 7, 2009 10:57:03 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Someone did not do his Homework and now has to stay in after school
Perhaps you should actually read what's going on?

 

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June 7, 2009 11:15:50 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I cant enjoy the Game online,thats going on and the address to contact someone who probably is responsible is this Forum.And every Day i tried to play Demigod there coming more Issues and more promises from Stardock.

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June 7, 2009 11:26:00 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

don' t push Stardock so hard they do everything they can to make the Demigod Servers available.  I am sure of it. I have got three games bought from Stardock and every single game was and is supported very well. So I trust in Stardock they will find a way quickly

 

Greetings

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June 7, 2009 12:15:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Is that the American Way?Cheating people and say: Yeah i´m Free i do what i want to do and bring uncomplete stuff out.

And now i read these things that Stardock planing with Demigod.This should already in a Game for 50€.

Now i am a dick to?

Yes. You're a dick.

Do you know why you're a dick? Because you're screaming at the wrong people. Stardock is the messenger. They're the publisher. They didn't make the game. But they are the ones trying to fix it.

Gas Powered Games is off showing off Supreme Commander 2. Why aren't you mad at them? It's their game.  

The only reason there is any hope is because Stardock has volunteered to fix the game and what do they get? They get all th blame assigned exclusively to them because they're the only ones willing to put themseslves out there and talk to us.

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June 7, 2009 12:24:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

People say your Game is broken and i think so too.I don´t care about your 100 Fanboys in this Forum.

Is that the American Way?Cheating people and say: Yeah i´m Free i do what i want to do and bring uncomplete stuff out.

And now i read these things that Stardock planing with Demigod.This should already in a Game for 50€.

Now i am a dick too?

I won't say that you're a dick.

But I will say that you have an interesting set of double standards.

Stardock is the publisher of Demigod for North America.  Atari is the retail publisher of Demigod in Europe and Australia. Snowball the publisher in Russia. The developer of Demigod is Gas Powered Games.

But you are singling out Stardock - the North American publisher (with international digital distribution rights) as your target of angst even though you bought the game in Europe at retail which means you're Atari's customer.

And you are singling us out because we are the ones communicating with users and because we're the ones who have assigned developers to solve the online problems.

If you feel that the game is "uncomplete" then why are you blaming Stardock for that when in your case, Atari is the publisher, not Stardock.  You're not even our customer. 

Again, posts like this make the case that it's a mistake to do these journals because users simply glomb on to the easiest target of their ire.  Since no one from Atari or GPG or Raknet are posting but Stardock is we're getting our name smeared.

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June 7, 2009 12:42:36 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
Again, posts like this make the case that it's a mistake to do these journals because users simply glomb on to the easiest target of their ire.  Since no one from Atari or GPG or Raknet are posting but Stardock is we're getting our name smeared.

They are not, the problem is that you can't chose who reads them and who doesn't People who are smart enough to know who to point fingers at (if that is constructive at all) are also the people that appreciate the journals for their worth. The people that are NOT smart at all don't care who they blame, they just need a scapegoat. Hell, in Europe when a team loses a football (sorry, soccer ) match the 'supporters' start tearing down stores and try to kill police officers that just try to keep things safe. It doesn't make sense, but apparantly some people don't think before they act, or in this case post.

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June 7, 2009 1:00:41 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Unfortunately there will always be some jackass that just wants to run his mouth off.

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June 7, 2009 2:54:41 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

 

Brad, 

 

Don't let the "modern entitlement-baby" (as it was so aptly put by someone else in another thread) get you down!

There will always be people confusing "privilege" with "right" and sadly that can't be helped (save the next generation of parents growing a brain/balls and kicking some ass again!)

People need to remember:  Just because we enjoy "rights" in our own home, those same "rights" do not extend via the internet into the privately-owned domain of someone else.  These forums are the property of Stardock and as long as we behave, we enjoy privilege on them.

It is a privilege to be able to enjoy communication with a publisher like Stardock not a right.

 

In order to turn this vile trend of "entitlement-baby whining" around, we all need to spend some time reclassifying things in our lives, taking things out of the "rights" column and adding them to the "privileges" column.   That action alone would breed a much more appreciative and gracious human race........too bad we're all too busy beating each other down to care!

 

<sigh>

the Monk

 

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June 7, 2009 4:07:51 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Guys.. take an honest look at what has happened since launch.. 

This game had problems at launch.  I don't care who was at fault, be it GPG, Stardock or Atari or who-ever(good point Frogboy),  Stardock has admitted to issues (which was refreshing to see).  They also said they did not realize from the beta the extent of the issues, and would do things different in the future.  That said, there have been considerable gaines in the connectivity of this game in the last month.

I for one, have enjoyed demigod now that it is easy to get a game going.  I have had only minor issues the last three weeks.  None of which make it worth returning.  If I dare say, I've gotten my money's worth. (uh-oh.. I might be accused of being a fan boy...)

People, if you have technical issues, it safe to say you are in the minority now.  Please stop the whining that "they" should of known about your problem.  Many connection problems now are likely a setup issues, which GPG and Stardock have little control over.

 Just show some patience, and explain the issue your issues to technical support.  Beating up a developer that has been working hard to fix the issues is self-defeating.  If they had been ignoring the issues, blast away, but this is clearly not the case.  Multiple patches have been out per week, which shows how much work they have been putting into it.  Beating them up now just discourages the open conversations they have been having with the community.  Please stop the blatent beatings, and give constructive feedback.

At this point, I'm sure they have a couple tweaks to connectivity, but I am now looking forward to the new content more than the next connectivity patch.

To Stardock and GPG.  Thanks for the continued effort on this, please keep it up, it would be a shame to see a good game such as this be discarded because of the poor launch. Best of luck... 

 

 

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June 7, 2009 4:42:17 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

6 out of 8 pantheon games started in some form of 2v1 today.  Don't give me that everything is working a-fkng-okay bs.  Seems there is a lot of finger pointing and saying the beta didn't catch stuff, but cmmon - in more than 3 days there have been 3,5k played games in the current tournament.  That gives less than 50 games per hour.  4 people per game = 200 people online playing tournament at the same time.  Let's say 400 people peak.  And this is a generous estimate.  

It's a bullshit statement that a system that can't handle 400 people online and 1-2 games starting per minute has been betatested!!!  Someone fucked up, plain and simple.

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June 7, 2009 5:10:11 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

6 out of 8 pantheon games started in some form of 2v1 today.  Don't give me that everything is working a-fkng-okay bs.  Seems there is a lot of finger pointing and saying the beta didn't catch stuff, but cmmon - in more than 3 days there have been 3,5k played games in the current tournament.  That gives less than 50 games per hour.  4 people per game = 200 people online playing tournament at the same time.  Let's say 400 people peak.  And this is a generous estimate.  

It's a bullshit statement that a system that can't handle 400 people online and 1-2 games starting per minute has been betatested!!!  Someone fucked up, plain and simple.

No shit, Sherlock.

Frogboy himself has said the same as much himself repeatedly.

No one is saying that everything is ok. I think FB used the terms "horrible" to describe the Pantheon.

Do you know why people are defending Stardock though?

Because of the parties involved here they are the one that would be most justified in saying "Fuck it." Like others said, Stardock is the publisher only in North America for retail. They didn't make the game. They didn't write the connectivity code.

But they are the ones who are taking responsibility and fixing it. I haven't seen anyone from Gas Powered Games on these forums. Instead, I hear about Supreme Commander 2. You know how pissed off that makes me? Chris Taylor is always talking about the next game. Where's their patch for Space Siege? Where is GPG in these forums?

Instead, people take a shit on the one participant who is arguably the least responsible to fix the problems and that's Stardock.

And Stardock's the ones being the most vocal about problems and they're the ones working to fix it so a little patience. This isn't some sort of life or death thing. This is a fucking video game.  Be glad Stardock's fixing it. I'm still waiting for GPG to patch Forged Alliance.

I bet half you complainers will mindlessly go off and buy Supreme Commander 2 and pretend the problems with Demigod were somehow of Stardock's making.

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June 7, 2009 5:30:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Did I ever point to Stardock in my post?  If anything, I only accused them of not doing a proper beta (which they as a publisher should).

Besides, I bet it's not as simple...  Seems to me like Stardock was involved to a bit more than just publishing the game in NA.  Offcourse, we don't know the entire truth.

P.S. I do aprecciate their effort to fix it... Unfortunately I can only hope they do as I don't think they take returns on the digital download they sold me.

P.P.S. the game has huge potential, but lets be honest.  For a full price game it does fail to deliver in many areas just looking at the mp part. (replays, proper lobby with chat rooms..)

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June 7, 2009 5:38:34 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I don't think they take returns on the digital download they sold me.

Can and do. Contact sales@stardock.com if that's what you'd prefer to do.

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June 7, 2009 5:46:26 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ok, thank you for the info.  Still hoping for a fix.. As I said I appreciate all the hard work you guys are putting in trying to fix it.  You know the internet always seems harsher than it should, but you must be also aware of the amount of frustration after for example failing 7/9 games...

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June 8, 2009 2:00:17 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Xan the publisher of Space Siege and Forged Alliance has gone into receivership (THQ). They are the ones who have not QA'd the patches and are soley responsible for the demise of those two games (though SS was pretty crap anyway). GPG sent a patch for FA to THQ over 9 months ago to bring it to 3600. The patch is still in the hands of THQ and never looks like surfacing.

As for Demigod well it has had a rocky beginning that's for sure. BUT (and it's a big one) Stardock are working really hard to fix it and communicating very well with the community. It's not like EA who just release crap and then ignore the shitstorm.

Personally I see this game going far IF the major problems get solved. Pathfinding and Replays are a must to fix (there weren't problems with pathfinding in SupCom, so why in DG?). The netcode is already being worked on and hopefully the MP lobby will be fixed at the same time.

As for Alt-Tab well that works fine from the main menu and ingame. Just don't do it in the MP lobby (odd but true).

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June 8, 2009 1:41:08 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Game works well enough to play now, my #1 priority is group join panth/ working stats .. which is comming within the month.. so im happy now.

Let this old thread die, mabye delete some of these old journals or put them in an archive area.

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June 9, 2009 2:46:45 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

How about a working pantheon first (as opposed to the completely broken state it is in now) before we (and they) start even thinking about extending functionality.

The only thing that sort-of works at the moment is custom games (and single player skirmish if you consider that a feature).  In order to get any sort of working automatching team tournament the player base has to grow substantialy.  There are barely enough players now to sustain the current pantheon.  In order to grow the player base the game has to function almost flawlessly on the most fundamental level - geting into, starting and playing a game.  Then it needs a lot more community features like replays, observers, well done friends system, chat rooms... Beeing a competatively oriented, team based game it most definitely needs some kind of a voting system too (concede game, kick player, kick observer, ban player and similar actions come to mind). 

Don't look at what bnet did with team ladders, they had tens of thousands of players online simultaneously.  Demigod has less than 20k registered players that played at least a single ranking game.  I doubt there are more than few hundred players online in peak times - which btw is quite weird for a mp only game that is claimed to have sold more than 100k copies.  You'd expect that everyone that bought it would play at least one custom game online.

BTW, It's quite astonishing that someone put so much effort into such a well designed, balanced and beautiful game, but left the most basic premise of it - the multiplayer part as an aftertought.

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June 9, 2009 3:08:23 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Misfortune,
How about a working pantheon first (as opposed to the completely broken state it is in now) before we (and they) start even thinking about extending functionality.

The only things that works at the moment is custom games (and single player skirmish if you consider that a feature).  In order to get any sort of working automatching team tournament the player base has to grow substantialy.  There are barely enough players now to sustain the current pantheon.  In order to grow the player base the game has to function almost flawlessly on the most fundamental level - geting into, starting and playing a game.  Then it needs a lot more community features like replays, observers, well done friends system, chat rooms... Beeing a competatively oriented, team based game it most definitely needs some kind of a voting system too (concede game, kick player, kick observer, ban player and similar actions come to mind). 

Don't look at what bnet did with team ladders, they had tens of thousands of players online simultaneously.  Demigod has less than 20k registered players that played at least a single ranking game.  I doubt there are more than few hundred players online in peak times - which btw is quite weird for a mp only game that is claimed to have sold more than 100k copies.  You'd expect that everyone that bought it would play at least one custom game online.

BTW, It's quite astonishing that someone put so much effort into such a well designed, balanced and beautiful game, but left the most basic premise of it - the multiplayer part as an aftertought.

Have they really sold that many? I thought most of them were pirated versions, which I assume will not show up on Pantheon stats.

 

I play pretty much single player only (yesh, it's a feature, and I love it ) but you are right that the multiplayer platform needs some solid features to back it up. But as far as I know the work lies at Gas Powered Games, and it's awefully quiet in that corner. Maybe I'm just spoiled with all the journals we get from Stardock. I do wish to hear something from GPG games though, about a patch of some sorts to add some necessary features. Contrary to DG balance and multiplayer connectivity, extra content and stat features are 'relatively easy' to make. Nothing a decent game studio can't handle, anyway. I'm looking forward to an update to see some headway being made here. And when most features are there they should do a feature weekend with free online play and then a buy one, get one 50% off sale stunt.

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June 9, 2009 5:43:02 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Frogboy already posted about sales somewhere, if I'm not mistaken the number mentioned was above 100k sales.

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June 9, 2009 11:44:29 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

How about a working pantheon first (as opposed to the completely broken state it is in now) before we (and they) start even thinking about extending functionality.

 

Different groups work on different things, and above and beyond that 'all work and no play' is a principle with many meanings.  Bug hunting is a difficult, time-consuming, and annoying process. you have to laboursly trudge through hundreds to thousands of lines of code, following program execution sometimes, to find the one spot where the problem is.  By comparison, adding the easy-peasy logic of a concede function is going to be a walk in the park, and a great break from the 'core' problems.

 

And I should point out that at my level, I have it easy on bug hunting:  I don't have to deal with device drivers, the internet, or end-users yet, 'cause I"m still in school!

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