What needs to be buffed?

By transitive on May 12, 2009 4:43:14 PM from

we've just had our first skill re-balancing since the game went live (Erebus' Bite skill has been nerfed a bit). in my opinion this is a good thing. i like the idea of making incremental adjustments to keep things in a good state of balance.

but nerfs are painful. sometimes they're necessary but they're always alienating and upsetting to some people. the other side of the balance coin is that some abilities are underpowered and should be improved to be brought in line with other abilities. this is a topic worthy of discussion as well.

i'll start it off with an omnibus list of things that might be good to discuss further. this thread should just be for brainstorming, detailed discussions and debates deserve their own thread so if you see something you want to talk about make a new post for it please.

anyway... here's my list, only gonna list the most noticeable ones

Oak

Soul Power - rank 1 is fine, ranks 2 and 3 offer only an additional 20 points of damage each, they scale very poorly and it is not very helpful to take them.

Sedna

Summon Yeti - the Yetis seem kinda poor, all things considered. this skill costs alot of mana as well. i would consider changing the strength of the Yetis and changing the mana cost.

Queen of Thorns

Uproot - there's alot wrong with this skill. needs a broad based review. the biggest issue with it is that it shouldn't have 4 ranks, this makes it far too costly in terms of skill investment for an ability that becomes progressively less useful as the game goes on.

Compost - i'm not sure how this skills up with ranks, or even if it does. this also seems incredibly narrow as it boosts minions that are already boosted better by a different passive and it boosts a spell that almost nobody uses. this might become more appealing if Uproot was improved but i think that Compost in general needs to do slightly more.

Erebus

Improved Conversion Aura + Coven - it takes a fairly massive skill point investment to use Erebus' minions effectively. i'm thinking these skills should be merged in some fashion into a single 5 point skill line, similar to Oak's Raise Dead Ward skill line.

Torchbearer

Deep Freeze - the cooldown lockout effect is excellent really, i'm just questioning whether the Shatter damage is at the appropriate level. it seems like its too low considering how difficult and mana costly it is to set up a 2x or 3x shatter.

Regulus

seems like he's in pretty good shape for the most part. i dont' play him much though so please post some feedback on Regulus. i do feel like all 4 of his active abilities are strong and at least 2 of his passives (Maim and Sniper Scope) are also very strong. anything that i'm missing?

Unclean Beast

Ooze - the health drain is a terrible price to pay. sure the effect is useful but its so difficult to sustain and it just keeps getting more and more costly as you level up the ability. i would suggest fixing the cost of Ooze at 25 health per second for all levels.

+66 Karma | 19 Replies

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I think you should add bestial wrath to UB's list. It may be a percent based skill and theoretically should therefore do tons of damage late game, but the fact is it takes you half a second to cast it and they know immediately that you've cast it because it takes another half second for you to roar at them so they know to just walk away and let most of the effect run out.

still the scaling on it is excellent and you can conceivably use it with a Wand of Speed or one of the Warping artifacts to instantly close the gap and get an extra 2 or 3 hits in. for these reasons i hesitate to add it to the list because its less obviously underpowered than some of the other stuff i've listed, its just slightly awkward.

Regulus and Torch are fine they don't need any buffs. I think Queen of Thorns has some issues that need to be addressed though. Maybe she should get some type of poison damage over time ability? Uproot definiately needs a buff as well.

Out of all the Demigods Queen of Thorns needs buffs the most. The other DG are mostly alright. I seriously think UB is deadly enough as he is without buffs, and this is coming from someone who plays almost exclusively as him.

Personally, I think a good chunk of the citadel upgrades could stand some looking at.

Character-wise, the only thing that really comes to mind is the already-mentioned Uproot. For a character with the supposed 'massive damage against structures' trait, she doesn't do a very impressive job of tearing them down when compared to other demigods with ranged attacks.

Quoting transitive,

reply 2

i think you're right, there's a little awkwardness in how Bestial Wrath works. Cookie Cutter build of Beast doesn't really take it until very late game where it becomes extremely good for plowing through Towers and Fortresses.

still the scaling on it is excellent and you can conceivably use it with a Wand of Speed or one of the Warping artifacts to instantly close the gap and get an extra 2 or 3 hits in. for these reasons i hesitate to add it to the list because its less obviously underpowered than some of the other stuff i've listed, its just slightly awkward.

The fact it requires some special consideration or item doesn't says it's underpowered? Would prefer something different so UB actually has a decent alternate build without spit. As it stands there is none.

the netcode sure could use a buff!

I don't think that the approach "so and so demigod is fine and they don't need buffs" really makes sense. The cookie cutter builds for most demigods are absolutely fine and don't need buffs at all(they're the reason you can do well with just about any of the demigods and why there's so few complaints about balance issues between the DGs). What needs to be buffed are the skill lines that just don't really do their job and aren't ever really used. We only have 8 DGs right now so to keep the game nicely varied, they're each going to need several viable playstyles.

EREBUS IN GENERAL.

BITE specifically

While more variety in demigod skill paths would be nice, I'd personally be more interested in more useful citadel upgrades. As is mentioned in several places, there's really only three that are more or less universally accepted as good (not counting the re-inforcement line)

Quoting Chaosnaska,

reply 9

EREBUS IN GENERAL.

BITE specifically

What specifically about bite would you like to see changed? Do you think it's not currently attractive enough compared to his other abilities? Remember that we're talking about balance within specific demigod abilities here, not balance of one demigod compared to another.

I'm sure bite will still be his strongest skill despite the nerf. If Erebus is going to get a buff, I'd rather it go to his minions, or perhaps mist form, and not to a skill that is already his star asset.

The base towers need to be buffed, they are pretty useless and no one seems to play with towers on hard.

I guess I'd also say I almost never use Erebus' mist or stun skills, however I think that's more due to my personal preference in play style than any particular lack of power inherent in those abilities...

They strike me as more "commit to a fight" skills than "nuke and run" which is how I like to play (maybe I should be TB/Reg )

Soul Power? Really? You want to make him even more Assassin like. Change Soul Power to something that's actually appropriate for a General - even a (smaller?) weapon damage buff in a radius would be better.

Oak

Soul Power - rank 1 is fine, ranks 2 and 3 offer only an additional 20 points of damage each, they scale very poorly and it is not very helpful to take them.

partially agree about its not much usefullness but i dont agree they need buff

oak is already too strong at high lvl imo

Sedna

Summon Yeti - the Yetis seem kinda poor, all things considered. this skill costs alot of mana as well. i would consider changing the strength of the Yetis and changing the mana cost.

yeah

yetis have no skill (QOT pets have range, oak /erebus self grow) and the very problem is sedna only works with a lot of passive ability, she is very weak offensive and witout speed and aura and silence and heal she is dumb

while QOT erebus are very strong both with pets and without there is no really a good spec for pets with sedna

they yeti should gain some cool skill like defensive on sedna herself or offensive, or some kind of small CC like a slightly snare dunno

Queen of Thorns

Uproot - there's alot wrong with this skill. needs a broad based review. the biggest issue with it is that it shouldn't have 4 ranks, this makes it far too costly in terms of skill investment for an ability that becomes progressively less useful as the game goes on.

thats about the same about every skill

skills are strong at start while at the end stats and autoattack matters more

at start this is anyway a VERY strong skill for its purpose, maybe i would just cut it to 3 ranks

well i tried the skill and its pretty weak

the real problem is these talents are NOT competitive to the last ones which give every stat to every pet,

since this skill need to chargeand can fade it should be way more strong imo

Erebus

Improved Conversion Aura + Coven - it takes a fairly massive skill point investment to use Erebus' minions effectively. i'm thinking these skills should be merged in some fashion into a single 5 point skill line, similar to Oak's Raise Dead Ward skill line.

erebus skills are strong

erebus pets are strong

fully talented pets are REALLY strong a pain in the ass

its fine like it is now

Torchbearer

Deep Freeze - the cooldown lockout effect is excellent really, i'm just questioning whether the Shatter damage is at the appropriate level. it seems like its too low considering how difficult and mana costly it is to set up a 2x or 3x shatter.

TB is a aoe char

you are right but making the combo too strong would mean he could kill 2 3 demigod at once sometimes

Regulus

seems like he's in pretty good shape for the most part. i dont' play him much though so please post some feedback on Regulus. i do feel like all 4 of his active abilities are strong and at least 2 of his passives (Maim and Sniper Scope) are also very strong. anything that i'm missing?

even for regulus is the same as other talents

you really need the first lvl of range then its useless

there are better skills to spend point in

as for active abilities they are all pretty good

the real problem is that other talents are just better

this skill is not much useful

imo they should nerf a slightly bit poison and autoattack and buff a bit other things like this

Quoting ddd888,

reply 16

Unclean Beast

Ooze - the health drain is a terrible price to pay. sure the effect is useful but its so difficult to sustain and it just keeps getting more and more costly as you level up the ability. i would suggest fixing the cost of Ooze at 25 health per second for all levels.

the real problem is that other talents are just better

this skill is not much useful

imo they should nerf a slightly bit poison and autoattack and buff a bit other things like this

It baffles me how many people think this... Ooze is UB's second strongest non-passive skill. Bestial wrath is useless once they know you have it, and foul graps is the most costly ability in the game point for point.

TB, QoT

I feel they could use a boost, simplest might be reducing/eliminating the cooldown when switching between the two schools, this would allow more hybrid viability....and thereby raise their range of 'directly' available abilities...this would increase their power without having to add anything....

Abilities should be available together....like shielding and then directly going back to using thorns....or using shatter followed by a firebolt...as it is right now it just takes too long for me to enjoy playing...so I end up avoiding them.....so much for my two cents:) Great game all around!

Allowing auto-attacks to continue while TB/Queen are changing forms would make hybrid builds a lot more viable, without having to muck around with specific skills.

The only skills that strike me as obviously underpowered are Compost and Yeti. There are a bunch of skills whose higher levels don't do nearly as much as lower levels, but I don't think that's a bad thing; it encourages people to try out a lot of different skills.

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What needs to be buffed?