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Exploiting Sedna Bugs for a long life

By on May 12, 2009 12:02:25 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Aroddo

Join Date 04/2009
+59

Healing Wind 2 enhances the healing capabilites of minion priests by small amount.

FYI: DGs can be healed every 8 seconds and the cooldown for minion healing spell is 5 seconds.
DGs are healed by % of max life while normal units get healed by a static amount.

Amount healed: 10%/12%/13%/15%
Sedna modifier: 15%/17%/30%/22%

Yep, the subtle bold font has it right. The level 3 priest heals you by 30% ... way more than the level 4 fatty.

Go figure.

 

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May 12, 2009 12:50:02 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

this true?

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May 12, 2009 12:52:59 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Where did you get that info?

Seems like they just switched level 3 and 4.

If this is indeed the case, its not very game breaking, all it does is save you a couple hundred gold. Dont get me wrong saving money is good, but its not as if the level 1 monks get the 30%. That would be excessive.

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May 12, 2009 12:59:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

leftover from old beta, i guess. stands like that in the lua files.

and normal healing progresses correctly.

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May 12, 2009 1:15:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

far more surprising than a number switch bug/code error is the fact that Healing Wind has an undocumented feature with such significance!

 

yet more awesomeness for Sedna, and this one is a total surprise.

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May 12, 2009 1:28:54 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hmmm, interesting.

The bug'll (hopefully) be addressed soon, but assuming that the level 3 and level 4 modified healing %'s are meant to be flipped I just gotta say: Wow! A 100% increase in priest healing? Awesome...

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May 12, 2009 1:29:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

healing wind's "undocumented" feature shows up even in the tootips.

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May 12, 2009 2:05:24 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The progression should obviously be 15/17/20/22 and someone typoed. Will be fixed when they get to it. And yes it's true, it's not just visual.

Another definition for 'take advantage of' is 'exploit' btw

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June 29, 2009 11:53:32 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Anyone know if this has been fixed in 1.1?  Or which file to check to see?

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June 29, 2009 11:58:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I thought I knowticed this, but assumed it was the Sedna on the other teams "anti-healing" ability, or something to do with that ability.

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June 30, 2009 1:40:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Eh, it is a balance mistake, not an exploit. It isn't like you have to do anything outside the normal scope of the game to cause this to happen. Still should definitely be fixed.

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June 30, 2009 2:48:41 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i don't think it got fixed in 1.1, when i switched my build from bishops to high priests i felt a huge increase in the healing from my minions.

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June 30, 2009 4:02:46 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Zechnophobe,
Eh, it is a balance mistake, not an exploit. It isn't like you have to do anything outside the normal scope of the game to cause this to happen. Still should definitely be fixed.
It's counterintuitive to have the best healing come from the 3rd rank priests.  Only players "in the know" will purposefully hold rank 3 instead of upgrading, hence they are taking advantage of the mistake.

The fact that you have to know about the bug to really benefit from it makes it abusable and an exploit.

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June 30, 2009 4:43:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Sorta true, and I generally thinking most exploit 'apologists' go out of their way to rationalize their abuse/use of something, but I don't think this is the case.  It's sorta like how Shamblers and Yeti's aren't necessarily better at rank 4 than rank 3. It is an odd balance tweak, and counter intuitive, but that doesn't quite bring up to the level of an exploit.  If you had to DO something to cause the additional healing that was at all outside of normal play, I'd say 'yeah'.  Like how idol minions used to persist after the loss of the summoning item, and you could buy/sell (this is the out of normal part) the idols to get more of them.

In this case, anyone who simply has level 3 priests would be getting the exploit, and never know it.

Consider this scenario:

I have the rank 3 priests, because I just upgraded from rank 2.  they heal the most.  Is it an exploit that I don't upgrade to rank 4, knowing they are worse? You seriously expect me to upgrade to rank 4, knowing they are worse?  I have to go out of my way to NOT exploit? I don't think that is the right word then.  It'd be like if there was a spot in Cataract which insta-kills a DG if you walk on it.  If you know it is there, is it an exploit not to step on it?

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June 30, 2009 4:56:33 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I reported it as a bug months ago. Got zero reaction in the problem report forum so I posted it here. Once everyone notices that Sedna is unkillable people might scream loud enough to prompt a reaction.

Btw. to fix that error you need to expend about 1 minute of work. Someone paypal GPG 2 dollars so they an afford to pay the manhour expenses. Plus tip&taxes.

 

And yes, the "bug" is still part of demigod with 1.1 patch.

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June 30, 2009 5:09:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Zechnophobe,
It's sorta like how Shamblers and Yeti's aren't necessarily better at rank 4 than rank 3.
Just an FYI, Yeti's have higher stats at rank 4 than rank 3.  Shamblers are odd.

Quoting Zechnophobe,
Consider this scenario:

I have the rank 3 priests, because I just upgraded from rank 2.  they heal the most.  Is it an exploit that I don't upgrade to rank 4, knowing they are worse? You seriously expect me to upgrade to rank 4, knowing they are worse?  I have to go out of my way to NOT exploit? I don't think that is the right word then.  It'd be like if there was a spot in Cataract which insta-kills a DG if you walk on it.  If you know it is there, is it an exploit not to step on it?

The justification is extremely limited. Idol upgrades do not compare with skill upgrades because you can skip ranks.  Many players do this.  It's strategically sound to buy rank 1 idols and use them until you can upgrade to rank 4.  I would guess that many players have almost never used rank 3 idols.

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June 30, 2009 5:35:25 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I use High Priests every single game, they're so good.

It'd be nice to have official word from GPG, but it might be intentional. Some farsighted dev might have thought ahead that since all the other generals on a team will buy Bishops, Sedna with Wind 2 could get stackable and improved priest minions on the cheap. It could be an intentional Sedna perk, though probably an unnecessary one considering how good Sedna is anyways. 

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June 30, 2009 8:50:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting SoFFacet,
I use High Priests every single game, they're so good.

It'd be nice to have official word from GPG, but it might be intentional. Some farsighted dev might have thought ahead that since all the other generals on a team will buy Bishops, Sedna with Wind 2 could get stackable and improved priest minions on the cheap. It could be an intentional Sedna perk, though probably an unnecessary one considering how good Sedna is anyways. 

If you have to try to logically justify its existence in the greater scheme of the rest of the game (aka, it doesn't fit without doing a mental leap) then it is most likely unintentional.  It is far more likely a tired dev simply missed it and hasn't been deemed gamebreaking enough to worry about fixing at the moment.  Yes, a 2 second fix can slip through the cracks.

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July 3, 2009 6:12:55 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Lumifly,



Quoting SoFFacet,
reply 16
I use High Priests every single game, they're so good.

It'd be nice to have official word from GPG, but it might be intentional. Some farsighted dev might have thought ahead that since all the other generals on a team will buy Bishops, Sedna with Wind 2 could get stackable and improved priest minions on the cheap. It could be an intentional Sedna perk, though probably an unnecessary one considering how good Sedna is anyways. 



If you have to try to logically justify its existence in the greater scheme of the rest of the game (aka, it doesn't fit without doing a mental leap) then it is most likely unintentional.  It is far more likely a tired dev simply missed it and hasn't been deemed gamebreaking enough to worry about fixing at the moment.  Yes, a 2 second fix can slip through the cracks.

This. Even if they wanted the highest level to be 30% (which I doubt) they clearly wouldn't have put it on the number three priests. Almost certainly a typo. Hopefully they'll fix it somewhat soon.

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July 4, 2009 8:49:30 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

reported it as a bug months ago. Got zero reaction in the problem report forum so I posted it here. Once everyone notices that Sedna is unkillable people might scream loud enough to prompt a reaction.

Btw. to fix that error you need to expend about 1 minute of work. Someone paypal GPG 2 dollars so they an afford to pay the manhour expenses. Plus tip&taxes.

Since their rate of fixing bugs is close to 1 bug / month, if this doesn't get high on their priority list, we'll have to wait for some time.

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July 4, 2009 11:13:38 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Since their rate of fixing bugs is close to 1 bug / month, if this doesn't get high on their priority list, we'll have to wait for some time.

lol.

nice find aroddo.

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July 7, 2009 4:02:11 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Although I knew of the bug, I actually thought it had been fixed until a few weeks ago, when I started seeing it's use pop up pretty frequently.  I think I can attribute that to this thread being raised from the abyss (thanks Zyvvrict <.<).

 

The bad side is, builds and itemization are starting to be focused around this bug with a lot of sedna players.  I've toyed around with it, so I know how insane it can be.  I'd wager that 3/4th of the Sednas I've fought in the last few weeks have gone blood, and health stack, just incase they do need to bug.  Many players don't, unless they see it as a last resort.  Some are less scrupulous altogether...and hey you can't blame a guy for buying High Priests as an upgrade to his monks, and reaping the benefit of the bug for a while until he replaces it with Bishops (because we all have a code of honor like mine, right?). 

Like I was saying though, its beginning to be a bit of a problem now that its on the front page of updated posts every other day.  More and more people are picking up blood, and simply health stacking to exploit the hell out of this bug.  You can easily reach 5k, which nets you really hefty heals, better than sednas own really, and with the high regen/speed itemization, those sednas are hard to deal with unless you can chain stun, or have a hell of a spike.  Course I feel that chain stuns useing grasp are an exploit in and of theirself, still, its one of the best tactics to deal with em. 

The exploiters arn't unkillable, far from it.  But its a difinite unfair advantage, especially in 1v1 scenarios (in which case they can be unkillable), and they really can rock the early and mid game, which pretty much means their able to rock the endgame too...

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July 9, 2009 10:50:14 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Tsumerius,
Although I knew of the bug, I actually thought it had been fixed until a few weeks ago, when I started seeing it's use pop up pretty frequently.  I think I can attribute that to this thread being raised from the abyss (thanks Zyvvrict <.<).


Lol, are you sad that he republished your secret bug?


Quoting Tsumerius,

The bad side is, builds and itemization are starting to be focused around this bug with a lot of sedna players.  I've toyed around with it, so I know how insane it can be.  I'd wager that 3/4th of the Sednas I've fought in the last few weeks have gone blood, and health stack, just incase they do need to bug.  Many players don't, unless they see it as a last resort.  Some are less scrupulous altogether...and hey you can't blame a guy for buying High Priests as an upgrade to his monks, and reaping the benefit of the bug for a while until he replaces it with Bishops (because we all have a code of honor like mine, right?).

Any other strategy than health stacking doesn't make sense here. 30% heal just gets more powerful with every bit of health added.


Quoting Tsumerius,
Like I was saying though, its beginning to be a bit of a problem now that its on the front page of updated posts every other day.  More and more people are picking up blood, and simply health stacking to exploit the hell out of this bug.  You can easily reach 5k, which nets you really hefty heals, better than sednas own really, and with the high regen/speed itemization, those sednas are hard to deal with unless you can chain stun, or have a hell of a spike.  Course I feel that chain stuns useing grasp are an exploit in and of theirself, still, its one of the best tactics to deal with em.

In duels you only have a chance if you outperformed Sedna in gaining XP and money (which is quite possible due to her lack of AoE). Better items make all the difference.

Quoting Tsumerius,

The exploiters arn't unkillable, far from it.  But its a difinite unfair advantage, especially in 1v1 scenarios (in which case they can be unkillable), and they really can rock the early and mid game, which pretty much means their able to rock the endgame too...

I wonder if that's a problem with the exploit or a problem with Sedna generally. What this exploit does is give her a level 5 priest for the price of a level 3 priest, so it's basically a money advantage. And a health advantage because others don't get a level 5 priest equivalent.

Ok, it's a heavy health & money advantage and you get it as soon as you hit level 5.

  1. Heal I
  2. Pounce I
  3. Healing Wind I
  4. Heal II / Pounce II / Inner Grace
  5. Healing Wind II

That build is strong even without the exploit. But the bug and with some affordable items (BotF, Banded Armor, Unbreakable Boots) you get a free 1200 heal every 10 seconds. And your Heal I/II. And about 42 health/second.
In battle that adds up to a potential health regeneration of about 2000 health over 10 seconds, assuming you constantly cast heal I.

Big surprise Sedna seems immortal.

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July 9, 2009 11:14:21 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

OLD NEWS, MOVE ON

 

Her priests arent the issue to be honest, theyre killable,

Her health per second and heals make her too unkillable when coupled with the right items.

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July 9, 2009 8:24:41 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Aroddo,

Quoting Tsumerius, reply 21Although I knew of the bug, I actually thought it had been fixed until a few weeks ago, when I started seeing it's use pop up pretty frequently.  I think I can attribute that to this thread being raised from the abyss (thanks Zyvvrict <.<).


Lol, are you sad that he republished your secret bug?

 

Well thats not what I meant.  When I read the patch notes for the first patch and it said 'the infamous sedna bug' was fixed, i took it to mean this.  It wasnt my bug in any sense.  Course round then I never even played as sedna.  I'm really more of a Rookie.  Get it?

 

Quoting SleepyForest,
OLD NEWS, MOVE ON

 

Her priests arent the issue to be honest, theyre killable,

Her health per second and heals make her too unkillable when coupled with the right items.

 

Priests can be a big advantage even without the bug.  I don't know about you, but i keep my priests behind me for heal support and their own safety.  With or without the bug you should be doing that, and moving em out when you see a tb or qot move forward to avoid aoes. 

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