A plead from Stardock: What kind of community do you want to be?

By on May 9, 2009 5:05:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
+1478

Hi guys,

I spend a lot of time reading through the forums and one of the things that's really starting to concern me is the hostility to the community towards those who don't share the same points of view. That is, intolerance for other view points.

I would ask that you really try to restrain yourself from flaming other people. It's okay for someone to think something is unbalanced or what the game should be more like some other game. If that person has a valid point, it can come through intelligent discussion. Similarly, if a valid counter point can be made, intelligent discussion is the way there.

If you guys can just show respect to one another both in game and out of game, we can all have a much better time. 

I love Demigod. I've poured my heart and soul into it.  I know it's a great game. It doesn't bother me if someone feels differently or wants something changed as long as those who disagree are able to put together intelligent and thoughtful responses.

So please, don't call people names or insult people who don't agree with you.  Thanks.

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May 9, 2009 5:07:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

What you ask will never happen. Forums give a place for people to come and bitch and complane and bash other people. Trust me ingame people are worse. Nice try but will never happen.

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May 9, 2009 5:26:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

That's the spirit! You came right out with an opposing point of view and managed not to insult or flame in the process. While I'm kind of a lurker who's on the "this game isn't that other game, move on" bandwagon, I do agree that things have begun getting rather heated pretty fast in every discussion. The thing that really gets me is that people who are even having technical issues with the game are getting flamed for being not technically savvy enough to fix their problems. We should all be doing what we can to help everyone get this game going and get playing online. Remember, you can't be a vet without being a noob first.

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May 9, 2009 5:28:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The GalCiv forums are a pretty nice place. So are the WinCustmize forum sand the Sins of a Solar Empire forums.

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May 9, 2009 5:29:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm sorry Frogboy, for all the great work you have and still will put in to the game, you have very little influence over the community.

 

It's a confluence of the anonymity of internet communication and the justification people feel in their oppinions. People are hard-wired to be agressive towards viewpoints they are opposed to, and will defend both their own views and also to the game, which they also feel invested in. 

Some people will be nice, some will be not-so-nice, and some will simply be trolls. You can probably convince people to be nice for a while, but unless you sticky this and force people to read it before they're allowed to post any reply ever, it's going to be meaningless over time.

 

You could assign a Community Manager to supervise a mod team to keep things civil and welcoming in here, but that's something that has to be kept up over time for each new offender. Some companies (I believe SoE?) have taken the rather draconian measure of linking forum behaviour to the game (forum ban = game ban). That's really pretty much all you could do.

Maybe the community can be shaped, as you're getting to it early... but I really doubt it. This is a spectator sport i'm afraid, make the best of it.

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May 9, 2009 5:33:36 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Spawn10459,
What you ask will never happen. Forums give a place for people to come and bitch and complane and bash other people. Trust me ingame people are worse. Nice try but will never happen.

But you are not complaining right now ?
You need a little faith, but it's just my point of view

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May 9, 2009 5:34:36 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i think the least we can do as a community is at least support the person/company (outside of buying the game) that has shown so much support for us. i cant speak for the community obviously but i will say i will do my best to have inteligent discussions and help anyone with any problems i might know the answers for. thanks again brad (and team) for all the support you have given us and especially letting us know what exactly you guys are doing. keep up the GREAT work and i cant wait for the "bee" vid.

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May 9, 2009 5:42:51 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ,

Hi guys,

I spend a lot of time reading through the forums and one of the things that's really starting to concern me is the hostility to the community towards those who don't share the same points of view. That is, intolerance for other view points.

I would ask that you really try to restrain yourself from flaming other people. It's okay for someone to think something is unbalanced or what the game should be more like some other game. If that person has a valid point, it can come through intelligent discussion. Similarly, if a valid counter point can be made, intelligent discussion is the way there.

If you guys can just show respect to one another both in game and out of game, we can all have a much better time. 

I love Demigod. I've poured my heart and soul into it.  I know it's a great game. It doesn't bother me if someone feels differently or wants something changed as long as those who disagree are able to put together intelligent and thoughtful responses.

So please, don't call people names or insult people who don't agree with you.  Thanks.

 

Are you new to the internet?  If so let me welcome you.  There is a formula to the internet that has basically made it out of the theory stage and is widely considered a law.  It is as follows:

 

Normal Person + Internet Anonymity = Complete Douche

 

There has never been a community on the internet that has functioned in the way you described above and will never be one. 

Sorry.

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May 9, 2009 5:47:41 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

incentives to be constructive and the ability for players to avoid certain people is probably best.  one issue i take with blizzard, for example, is that they beg for only constructive posts.  however, constructive posts take work, and they (blizzard) give literally no worthwhile incentive for gamers to do anything but do what any disatisfied customer with easy communication would do - complain.  this is one reason for the WoW forums being trash.

as for moderation by itself, i think it's shallow and useless in making a likable community.  you'll just have people staying within the rules while whining and moaning.  some form of community self-regulation seems to be more effective after seeing websites like gameriot, arenajunkies, etc, but maybe companies can't afford the liability of allowing communities to self-regulate on official forums?  eh.

PS. and yea, in agreement with the above poster, i would say that competitive gaming attracts a lot of aggressive, ambitious people, some with bad attitudes.  i don't think i've played a competitive game where this type of player didn't exist in large quantities.

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May 9, 2009 5:49:19 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Plankzula,

quoting post
Hi guys,

I spend a lot of time reading through the forums and one of the things that's really starting to concern me is the hostility to the community towards those who don't share the same points of view. That is, intolerance for other view points.

I would ask that you really try to restrain yourself from flaming other people. It's okay for someone to think something is unbalanced or what the game should be more like some other game. If that person has a valid point, it can come through intelligent discussion. Similarly, if a valid counter point can be made, intelligent discussion is the way there.

If you guys can just show respect to one another both in game and out of game, we can all have a much better time. 

I love Demigod. I've poured my heart and soul into it.  I know it's a great game. It doesn't bother me if someone feels differently or wants something changed as long as those who disagree are able to put together intelligent and thoughtful responses.

So please, don't call people names or insult people who don't agree with you.  Thanks.



 

Are you new to the internet?  If so let me welcome you.  There is a formula to the internet that has basically made it out of the theory stage and is widely considered a law.  It is as follows:

 

Normal Person + Internet Anonymity = Complete Douche

 

There has never been a community on the internet that has functioned in the way you described above and will never be one. 

Sorry.

Go to the GalCiv Forums and let your eyes be opened, i dont know about sins but just cause most forums are full oif jerks dosent mean all of them are, just take a peak at the GalCiv2 Forums and you will see why Frogboy is so optimistic.

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May 9, 2009 5:50:19 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Its gona be real hard for that not to happen. Its human nature to think that that said persons view is right but wrong in others views.

 

That said I will give you and SD one thing you do keep the community informed of whats going on in a timely matter. Other companies rarely do it.

Just know informed does not fix problems. The games going on its first full month of release and the connectivity problems did not get any better. People say that it got worse it only did get worse cause more people are trying to play now.

I hope this game does not go the way of AoC cause i am having loads of fun. I have not had this much fun playing a game yet so frusterated cause i want to play and at times it takes an hr to get a game going. Last game like that was WoW when it first released.

I hope this next patch is the fixer for the multi[layer part.

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May 9, 2009 5:51:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Are you new to the internet?

I've been running Internet communities for 25 years (since Commodore 64 BBSes). 

The tone of a community is different from place to place.  People can lead by example and help create a better community.

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May 9, 2009 5:56:32 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting TurielD,
I'm sorry Frogboy, for all the great work you have and still will put in to the game, you have very little influence over the community.

 

It's a confluence of the anonymity of internet communication and the justification people feel in their oppinions. People are hard-wired to be agressive towards viewpoints they are opposed to, and will defend both their own views and also to the game, which they also feel invested in. 

Some people will be nice, some will be not-so-nice, and some will simply be trolls. You can probably convince people to be nice for a while, but unless you sticky this and force people to read it before they're allowed to post any reply ever, it's going to be meaningless over time.

 

You could assign a Community Manager to supervise a mod team to keep things civil and welcoming in here, but that's something that has to be kept up over time for each new offender. Some companies (I believe SoE?) have taken the rather draconian measure of linking forum behaviour to the game (forum ban = game ban). That's really pretty much all you could do.

Maybe the community can be shaped, as you're getting to it early... but I really doubt it. This is a spectator sport i'm afraid, make the best of it.

 

SOE's forums are a complete joke. Banning people for bad mouthing your game or voicing actual problems and concerns is never the answer. Complaints, issues, and concerns are all healthy things that need to be brought up in order to make things better. Yes, some people will troll, that'll happen in every forum, but just because people say something you don't want to hear doesn't mean you should silence them. It's all a part of pushing the game to be better.

 

SOE out right bans people who say ANYTHING even remotely negative about their games. The result of this is EQ2flames has more forum traffic than SOE's own forums. People know they can go to EQ2flames and talk all the shit they want, they can say ANYTHING they want and no one will be banned for it, you won't even be moderated. Yes, there are a lot of trolls there but there is also a level of discussion about the game that official forums could never hope to come close to. Since discussion is the sole reason for forums a more laid back, free speech approach fosters that far better than the Nazi approach.

 

Now, as far as the DG goes, you have a competitive game (pissy people), revolving around a team based system (pissy people), on the internet (anonymity, pissy people), with the potential of a very large audience (crowd mentality, pissy people). There are going to be problems based on any one of those things. Combine them all and you expound the problem. It's just the nature of the beast. People belittle the DotA community for being the way they are but I promise you this, this community will be exactly the same, and it's on its way there. It's really has nothing to do with anything other than the nature of the beast.

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May 9, 2009 6:05:21 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think Frogboy (and correct me if im wrong) is making the plead to the more mature people in this community, just asking to not go on a flame fest just because someone made a rage post.

Its true that we cant avoid jerks and trolls but that dosent meant we have to play thier game.

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May 9, 2009 6:08:55 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I agree that part of it is due to the competitive nature of the game. But I'm pretty guilty of this myself, and will try to stop. Just not sure if anyone else will. As people said, aggressive gamers+anonymity=problems

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May 9, 2009 6:10:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

needs more kittens

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May 9, 2009 6:13:13 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Also, this is a plea, not a plead

 

ZING!

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May 9, 2009 6:13:41 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Yah be nice to each other! Its good for the heart and makes you feel like sunshine.

I don't really know what you can give for incentives to make people behave nicer here though, maybe you could introduce a option to rate posts and give users an option to only show not bad rated posts/topics, kinda like youtube does it.

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May 9, 2009 6:15:09 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Fixing connection issue overnight across multiple days. Expected.

Keeping communication across several production teams. Expected.

Continue to release information to public. Expected.

Reaching out to 3rd party like Game Ranger. A little surprised.

======================================================

Reaching out to the community hoping one would respect another. Very surprised, Bravo.

For this, I can truly say I respect Brad Wardell (Frogboy) of Stardock, the man who tried to make the community better.

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May 9, 2009 6:15:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Don't know if this is really on-topic but I guess it is part of the reason....anyway I think that if any official (even an appointed mod) would answer more to our threads, it will be better. Don't get me wrong, you do a great job with these journals and it's the most open way to say things I've ever seen, but...there is need for some mods....otherwise there's chaos.

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May 9, 2009 6:40:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I personally hate the houlier-than-thou forums of some games where everyone has to pretend to be an enlightened renaissance man.

Anybody who is offended by something someone has written on an internet forum needs to get a grip.  People insulting each other is what the internet is for and it makes it much more interesting.

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May 9, 2009 6:45:19 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting chris701,
I personally hate the houlier-than-thou forums of some games where everyone has to pretend to be an enlightened renaissance man.

Anybody who is offended by something someone has written on an internet forum needs to get a grip.  People insulting each other is what the internet is for and it makes it much more interesting.

 

But its not about making it interesting, we are not the "dr phill show" or whatever, its about disccusing.

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May 9, 2009 6:50:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm all for a "helpful" community. I've already taken the step of attempting to organize the forums a bit, but could use some help from a mod, admin, etc. as I can't do this on my own.

My creations

****Master Lists****

Demigod Master List

Game Features Master List

Gametype Master List

Game Mods Master List

The Demigod master List is active right now, which makes me quite happy. However, the other 3 threads are now hidden due to all the other posts bringing them to the bottom of the page, or away from the first page. It would be great if they could be stickied!

 

Thanks Frogboy!

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May 9, 2009 6:52:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Spawn10459,
What you ask will never happen. Forums give a place for people to come and bitch and complane and bash other people. Trust me ingame people are worse. Nice try but will never happen.

Oh really...As Brad stated the GC2 forums are pretty good, i been there for 3+ years now and have found it to be a fine place, along with all the other Stardock affiliated sites.

Brad, the problem is the RTS crowd are just like this. When GC2 was released i had just come from the Rise of Nations forums and saw this exact same type of community. EA has many forums that are the same too.

I'm afraid this is not going to change and that you may need a bigger ban hammer in here than over on the GC2/SINS/WC side of the fence.

Of course not all RTS folk are cut from the same cloth, but the trend is apparent as you can see.

Maybe moving Kryo or Peace Phoenix over here might help the cause?

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May 9, 2009 6:53:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Wow I bet your life is interesting. Do you just try and make everything you do as boring as possible?

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May 9, 2009 7:00:11 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting chris701,
Wow I bet your life is interesting. Do you just try and make everything you do as boring as possible?

So what you mean is that you have to go to a forum and see people flaming each other to get entertained?, there are other ways to get entertained.

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