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Demigod: Day 6 Status Report!

By on April 21, 2009 5:57:51 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

image Greetings!  Tons of different things to talk about today so bear with me.

Based on the logs, multiplayer is working pretty decently for most people but for others it is completely broken.  A program called Game Ranger has helped a lot of people but there’s a lot of warez users on there.

Let’s talk about the pirates

I’ve read a lot of misconceptions out there. First, no, we very much don’t like it when people pirate our stuff.  Our position has simply been that people are going to pirate a game whether it has draconian copy protection or not and the people who will buy a PC game will buy it and the people who won’t won’t. 

The first few days of Demigod being miserable on-line was largely the result of us simply not having taken into account the effect pirated copies would have on our server resources. So we had to scrounge servers and get users onto there.

Once we got legitimate users onto the servers that were isolated from the infrastructure that was being pounded on by the pirates, the connection situation improved dramatically as you know.

It’s easy and convenient to blame piracy for the launch debacle of Demigod but that would be inaccurate. Even had Demigod had some nasty copy protection on the DVD, it would still have been cracked and this problem would have come up anyway.

So contrary to what some have said, Stardock’s anti-copy protection stance is not the cause the first few days of Demigod’ connectivity. More like, our inexperience in publishing multiplayer-centric games caused us to underestimate the server infrastructure needed.

We do not intend to change our policy on copy protection. This leads us to the next part.

Understanding how Stardock supports games

Our “copy protection” is to treat our games as a service rather than a product.  Those of you who have our non-games like Object Desktop or Multiplicity know what I speak of.

That is, we keep releasing updates to our games for a long time.  Our publishing agreement with Gas Powered Games includes game updates to the game for at least a year. And after that, we still expect to release updates.

Once the multiplayer connectivity stuff is straightened out, we can start to talk about the kinds of things we can add like team based joining, how clan support should be, what kinds of items people would like to see, what kinds of additional demigods people want, and so on.

But our first priority has to be to those users who find connectivity flakey or just plain non functional. They paid $40 for a game and we have an obligation to help them before we start adding in new features and such.

Stardock’s business model is that our titles generate revenue over a long period of time rather than in the first 90 days. So we look at our journey with you being at the very beginning.

Why we love the community

Another thing that really keeps us going is just how wonderful the community is.  Obviously, it should be clear by now that we weren’t anticipating the kinds of connection challenges some people have run into. Our guys have been working with the guys at Gas Powered Games night and day on resolving them. 

I can assure you that Gas Powered Games is as interested as we are in making sure problems people run into are solve quickly.  Not in some patch a month from now but like updates in a matter of days.

But what really also has made this experience a bit amazing is just how great the community has been to us.  One user (OrleanKnight) sent our team a box of Mrs. Fields cookies.  Other users have sent us cards and pictures their kids have made of various Demigods.  How can you not love such a group of people?

Let’s face it, you guys just rock out there.

Getting the next update out

We’re going to start to try to be a bit more careful about how quickly we put out updates. The last update went out without updating the pantheon security checks to support the new version which resulted in most games not being counted. That’s the kind of thing that haste brings.

That said, as I type this, the team is working on an interim update to Demigod.  It doesn’t “Fix” connectivity issues one way or the other but does provide better error messages (and we still have work there).

For example, one “Fix” that still needs to go in is the “Failed to join game” message in custom games. What it should say is “Game is full”. But a lot of frustration people run into is in the kinds of error messages that are shown (or lack there of). 

I’m pretty sure this update tonight does start to wean experienced users off of AI players in skirmish and pantheon. At the very least, it has the support so it can become a server side change tomorrow.

Eliminating the connection issue

For those who can’t connect (you know who you are) the solution will be the UDP proxy servers. They spent a lot of time today getting them up and starting to test them to see how they work.  Unfortunately, it’s not something that can be done overnight. The team says later in the week they hope to have it ready.

But what that will do is alter Demigod from a peer-to-peer game to a quasi-client-server game that maintains the peer-to-peer performance.  If there are any IT people reading this, feel free to explain to lay people the significance of being able to do this in a couple of days without having to change the game client.  

Long Term

For us, Demigod is a long term commitment. So people who worry about this being like a typical release and move on type thing need only to look at our other games.  We will be continuing to work to ensure Demigod evolves over time.  I look forward to having official tournaments between individuals, clans, etc.  So there is definitely a lot to look forward to.

If any of you have any questions, just comment here and I’ll do my best.

Cheers!

 

Evening update

Just wanted to give you a head's up that we're not going to put out the update tonight. We have it staged but there is a concern about releasing it and then having the team go home in the event there is some unknown problem. So we're going to put this up tomorrow afternoon. Stay tuned.

+912 Karma | 103 Replies
April 21, 2009 7:42:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This whole talk about future updates is awesome! You guys rock!

April 21, 2009 7:42:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

well good thing its supposingly working for others ( I have yet to meet a person with no problems at all) Personally i pretty much gave up playing on internet because it just doesnt happen. I only recall one occasion where we actually had a 2v2 with noone dropping (laggy as shit but nevertheless) in roughly 30 attempts. I find it almost INSULTING that people with pirated copies of the game have an easier time playing via hamatchi etc. then us legit users who can only enjoy the AI flaws at this time. I dont know how you could release the game it at this point, its like there hasnt been any progression since beta 1 multiplayer-wise. You should fix it quickly or "boom goes the dynamite"

April 21, 2009 7:54:51 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Sweet thanks!!

April 21, 2009 8:05:16 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Stardock FTW!

 

April 21, 2009 8:06:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

But what that will do is alter Demigod from a peer-to-peer game to a quasi-client-server game that maintains the peer-to-peer performance.

 

Sorry to say this, but in-game latencies are about 150% to 200% higher than "regular".

And a question for anyone able to answer,why is a "NAT facilitator" needed even for those whitout routers?

 

Anyway, i see things improving, just hoping they improve a lot

April 21, 2009 8:11:31 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I believe in Stardock.  This is the only game company I've ever purchased a game from and a year later I was still getting good updates and tweaks to the product (I speak of Sins; every patch made the game feel newer, better and different).  Every patch felt so very useful that I seriously felt I was getting a return on my $40 investment.

I am positive Demigod will get the same ongoing treatment Sins gets, but I do agree that fixing the problem for customers who can't play the game online (or at all) is a priority over all others.  I can wait patiently.

As of for a suggestion, how about a female assassin demigod?  Being male, I understand the male-centric nature of most any game and why the majority of demigods are male, but seriously, no assassin female?  Also, I noticed no Japanese-mythology demigod.  How about a female Oni (Demon Ogre) that stands 12 feet tall, carries a giant war club and has strength, object possession and fear-based abilities.

There is no reason she can't be attractive, mind you (I am male, remember... and the vast majority is male; Queen of Thorns does not look the way she does without reason).  My fiancé took more issue with Sedna than QoT because she is from an arctic tribe (Inuit-themed I'm guessing), but she doesn't wear pants...

I envision a Bome-esq Oni Amazon beauty of a woman walking the battlefield in somewhat revealing, but mostly functional, Japanese armor hammering things into dust with a giant warclub (a tetsubo / kanabo) while exuding a constant aura of fear that weakens the attack damage of those around her and casting spells that call upon the spirits of objects (defense buildings or even the gear of rival demigods at higher levels, or as another tree path) to turn to her cause, if only for a short while.  Round those out with some kind of "terrorize" AOE debuff, the ability to hurl some kind of negative-energy attack that damages both health and mana, a "whirlwind attack" that damages all near her for good damage and some passive buffs to her strength (HP & Weapon Damage) along with Enhance Attributes.

Okay, I'll stop now.

April 21, 2009 8:11:35 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Your logs may show thousands of people playing and lots of games going on.  What it doesn't show is those thousands of players might have spent 30 minutes just to get in a game.

 

I know for myself, I spend 30 minutes to get into a game that I play for 30 minutes.  Yes, the game is addictively fun that I have to torcher myself through the crappy connection to get a game.

April 21, 2009 8:35:22 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Does the server patch tonight, that fixes pantheon profiles not updating, fix the negative/wonky favor points issue?

My understanding is that it fixes the pantheon profiles being wonky along with negative favor points. 

 

April 21, 2009 8:37:14 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Sorry to say this, but in-game latencies are about 150% to 200% higher than "regular".

And a question for anyone able to answer,why is a "NAT facilitator" needed even for those whitout routers?

We can't control what person A and person B's connection is in terms of latency. That's an ISP thing. 

A NAT facilitator is not needed for those without routers. But most people have routers these days.

April 21, 2009 8:38:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm looking forward to the proxies, hopefully they'll let me connect. Do you plan to do a test with people who have connection problems now to verify that they actually solve the problem?

Yes. The plan is to put up a beta and ask those who are having problems to grab it and try it out.  

April 21, 2009 8:39:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm sorry, but I find this hard to believe. Last week there was a post saying Demigod has around 18,000 legid players. If multiplayer is working for most people, where is everybody? There are never more than 20 custom games available; It also takes half a day to successfully play a skirmish or pantheon game.

Based on the logs, nearly everyone plays pantheon and skirmish games online, not custom games.   I can't tell you why that is though.

April 21, 2009 8:42:14 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Not sure if it has been put in, but I have noticed a couple of changes.  I haven't had an AI in the past 2 pantheon games (1v1 and 3v2).  My favor was reset to 150 and I had 0 items bought.  I bought the Charm of Life in the first game and lost with 40 favor points awarded to me.  When I started the 2nd game, I had -85 Favor.

April 21, 2009 8:42:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It's nice to know that you're aware of the issues and are working to fix them. Other otherwise stellar publishers often clam up in similar situations, making players wonder what's going on, and it is quite refreshing to have constant communication and support from stardock.

Thanks.  I know what you mean, one of my pet peeves is when publishers try to sweep problems under the rug.

Those who have played Galactic Civilizations or Sins know that we tend to try to put our "dirty laundry" out there for players to see. It's important that people know that whatever issues they may have aren't being ignored.  You guys paid $40 for this game and we have an obligation to make sure we address any problems people are having.

April 21, 2009 8:45:09 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

thanks for the update Brad!

April 21, 2009 8:59:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

Based on the logs, nearly everyone plays pantheon and skirmish games online, not custom games.   I can't tell you why that is though.

 

That's because custom games gives an unfair advantage to players.   People can have an arrange team in custom games.  Also you don't know what level of skill the other players are.  So most of the time, you are dominating or getting dominated in custom games.

 

Pantheon/skirmish matches you with same level skill players, or atleast it's suppose to.  So majority will pick these modes just like all other rts games.

April 21, 2009 9:00:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

I'm sorry, but I find this hard to believe. Last week there was a post saying Demigod has around 18,000 legid players. If multiplayer is working for most people, where is everybody? There are never more than 20 custom games available; It also takes half a day to successfully play a skirmish or pantheon game.

Based on the logs, nearly everyone plays pantheon and skirmish games online, not custom games.   I can't tell you why that is though.

 

Because it is nearly impossible to play with a friend.

April 21, 2009 9:01:03 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Frogboy,

I know connectivity takes priority, but do you have an update on the move order bug? When you cast a spell, occasionally your Demigod refuses to do anything more until he moves. He will just sit there and autoattack anything nearby, but unless you move first, you can't cast another spell or target a specific enemy.

April 21, 2009 9:26:41 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

When you cast a spell, occasionally your Demigod refuses to do anything more until he moves. He will just sit there and autoattack anything nearby, but unless you move first, you can't cast another spell or target a specific enemy.

Yeah that bugs me.  I always lose kills that way.

April 21, 2009 9:31:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

what is game ranger? I am now interested in this thing.

I looked it up, but I wanna know if its safe and stuff. I'll check back here in a couple of days, thanks

April 21, 2009 9:37:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting AngryZealot,
Frogboy,

I know connectivity takes priority, but do you have an update on the move order bug? When you cast a spell, occasionally your Demigod refuses to do anything more until he moves. He will just sit there and autoattack anything nearby, but unless you move first, you can't cast another spell or target a specific enemy.


This one drives me bonkers.  Every now and then you can see your DG caught in an animation glitch when this happens too; he'll rotate maybe 20 degrees then snap back to the starting orientation.


That aside, I'd like to express my thanks to Stardock and Gas Powered.  This is truly phenomenal communication and support, but, it's nothing less than what I expected from Stardock .  I puchased GalCiv2 and Sins at launch, and they remain shining examples of PC gaming done right.  Demigod is quickly climbing up there too; I've already caught myself daydreaming about new strategies to try out.  It'll be nice to finally cut my teeth on the multiplayer tomorrow (I haven't had connection issues, I've just preferred to practice in skirmish and wait for things to settle a bit).

April 21, 2009 9:39:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm in Singapore and using an ADSL connection.

When can I grab the Beta and try out the new proxy things?

April 21, 2009 9:50:08 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Was the update you are releasing tomorrow the beta you talked about a few posts ago?  Basically the beta is the new proxy setup?

 

Thanks for all your hard work, suprised it came up so fast. Hoping it will be all setup by the weekend. 

 

I'll send you a box of fudge Stardock, m'kay?  What kind?

April 21, 2009 10:01:55 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

thank you for keeping us abreast. 

love the game so far, and i have been able to connect pretty easily.

good luck.  i will keep spreading the word about the game.

 

tf

 

 

April 21, 2009 10:11:09 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

AWESOME! Thank you for the everlasting support and very appreciated updates!

 

Got some more AWESOME games today ! Really..Game Ranger let's you set up and play INSTANTLY! So until the issue is solved (to all the people reading this) use Game Ranger. Then once, the servers are online! CRAM THE ONLINE PANTHEON

April 21, 2009 10:31:14 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks for the update, Frogboy!

I'm one of those users who has not been able to connect to a single game (despite having played the Beta and having had success there, go figure ).  Port forwarding, all kinds of network tweaking, and just no dice.

That being said, I just want you to know I'm behind you guys 100%.  If this were any other company I would have written the game off, but I'm familiar with Stardock and know you guys are true to your word.

Looking forward to that update this week!

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