Demigod: Monday

By on April 20, 2009 3:27:59 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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Tomorrow will mark the 1st week since Demigod’s official launch.  The newer reviews that have come out since the initial launch have come back to more where we’re expecting:

Firing Squad: 84 of 100

http://www.firingsquad.com/games/demigod_review/page6.asp

 

Cosmos Gaming: 95 out of 100

http://www.cosmosgaming.com/articles.php?id=1963&articletype=review

GameFocus: 92 out of 100 and an Editor’s Choice

http://www.gamefocus.ca/?nav=reviewCard&fid=7318

Where are we at?

First, one of the side benefits from the day 0 debacle is that I have fallen in love with a new program called GameRanger. It’s hard to remember but back in the Total Annihilation days, playing multiplayer involved knowing someone’s IP address and trying to connect to their game via IRC or something else. But then program like TEN and Kali and such came out and made things better.  But if you’re having problems with getting multiplayer going, I have to say, GameRanger works pretty well and it is doing basically the same thing we’re in the process of setting up.

Now right now, Demigod, as a game, is awesome.  Demigod, as an on-line service, however, sucks ass. It works fine for what I dare say most people but for others, it's just awful. Our job is to make sure it works fine for everyone. 

Talk about being babes in the woods. Sins of a Solar Empire’s network “infrascture” to this day involves 1 server.  Demigod’s involves dozens of servers now because of so many people using it. I guess it turns out most people playing Sins of a Solar Empire were playing it single player.

So what is the cause of our woes?

Let’s talk about peer-to-peer networking.  Here’s how it works:

image

Everyone has to connect to everyone. And unfortunately, not everyone can.  Worse, the connection servers we’ve had have been just being pounded by the number of requests.

Why wasn’t this found in beta? There’s two reasons:

1) Our beta group was overwhelmingly located in North America and they didn’t have problems connecting to each other. That is still the case now.  But people in Europe tend to have problems connecting to people in the United States.

2. Our synthetic stress tests on the server were through pretty ideal connections where connections were pretty easy.

So what can do do about this?

 

 

 

image

 

This is a bit of an over simplification but you get the idea. We have the connections pass through these proxy servers on-route to the other player. The geographic location of these servers is key to keep users from getting lag.  I’m told it shouldn’t take very long to get this part going.

It’s not all bad

I will say that the current system does a pretty decent job.  Once we were able to throw enough servers at the problem we’re seeing a lot of successful MP games.  But that does little good for the people who just can’t connect and no amount of port forwarding is going to solve the case where two players just can’t talk to each other.

Expectations

My expectation is that by the end of this week, the connectivity problem will be largely solved. I hopefully won’t have to eat my words. But the fact that things like GameRanger works so well indicates that there’s little problem with Demigod itself but rather the service infrastructure behind it.

Stay tuned.

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April 20, 2009 10:53:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting droper66,
This cannot come soon enough

Amen

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April 20, 2009 11:03:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think continuing to talk with the gaming community will hopefully encourage the longevity of this title and this is a really good thing

of course, I also do hope that the proposed fixes will assist in making the multiplayer faster and more accessible on the connectivity level... even when I connect to Aus custom game from Aus (where I am), it takes at least 2-3 minutes before it can make all the relevant connections (and that's if I'm lucky)...

Sometimes I'll try to join with a friend, except he won't be able to join because someone unable to connect is stuck in the queue hogging a slot for 10 minutes before dropping out of the queue...

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April 20, 2009 11:23:33 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

 

woot....once again SD ftw!!!   Go Frogboy!    

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April 20, 2009 11:28:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You know I'd trust my mom gettin plowed by frogboy.  I know he'd call her back the next day.  Hell I bet he's the kind of guy who'd make her breakfast.  Lol.

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April 20, 2009 11:42:34 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm still pretty upset about the quality of this game for the price I paid, but you guys really do seem to be standing behind the good AND bad of it.  I like that, and I'm really hoping you guys pull off some amazing stuff over the coming months.

Suggestions:  After you stabilize the online gameplay, I think you really need to take a look at the game's UI and update it.  The multiplayer menus definitely need some upgrading, as well as the actual information that's displayed during battles.  Even the menu buttons themselves look a little 'flash-like', in my opinion.  If possible, make some minor single-player lobby tweaks so it's not so obvious that it's a direct ripoff of the multiplayer client.  In other words, general polishing.

On the positive side of things! The balance is really well-done, the music and voices are great, and the character models are top-notch.  The game is addicting as hell and combat is visceral and satisfying.  The game has SO much potential, and I'm really crossing my fingers that two years down the road it'll be going strong, and I'll have 30 Demigods to choose from and two dozen maps to wreak havok on. 

I'm rooting for you all to come through.

 

 

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April 20, 2009 11:51:21 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting eternalcircl,
You know I'd trust my mom gettin plowed by frogboy.  I know he'd call her back the next day.  Hell I bet he's the kind of guy who'd make her breakfast.  Lol.

 

lol

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April 20, 2009 11:52:59 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,


1) Our beta group was overwhelmingly located in North America and they didn’t have problems connecting to each other. That is still the case now.  But people in Europe tend to have problems connecting to people in the United States.

 

Well, I hope I don't get banned for this but... I have to disagree with you. Many (if not all) of the beta players were well aware of the connection issues and we reported them often. Anyone can search the threads prior to DG's release to find these posts. Here is one: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/340528 Around the time of this thread you also acknowledge how serious the connection issues were (I cannot find the thread where you gave it a 4 out of 10). Granted this was late february, I never saw any improvement in the network code. If you had taken a poll with the beta players a week before release, you would have found that well over 90% of us were still having serious connection issues, the same kind that people are now having after release.

I really hope this "proxy" thing helps solve the problem, but I doubt it.

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April 21, 2009 12:24:01 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I can see why people are complaining but to be honest i havent seen this kind of support for a game since.... ever.

 

When i seen the australian box on the image i was blown away, just ask blizzard if australia even exists.  Dont ask EA anything there all deaf.

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April 21, 2009 12:26:00 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Well, I hope I don't get banned for this but...

 

No, when you get banned it won't be for the 'offense' of daring to disagree with the powers that be, it'll be for your offensive attitude in general.  You know, the same offensive attitude that insures you and I will never play on the same side (or ideally in the same game) again.

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April 21, 2009 12:42:17 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Hmm... I'm in China. I still have to try the multiplayer (given enough time available). Let's see if I'll go "W00t!" or !@#$%^&*!!!

Awesome job with the reports!

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April 21, 2009 1:02:55 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I bet you go ...... sigh .... woot.

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April 21, 2009 2:00:32 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I honestly think that these issues are still being downplayed. It doesnt work fine for "most of the population," it works like shit for everyone.

GameRanger is 100% better than the POS built in matchmaking...explain that.

And you say that the netcode is the same that's used in SINS, i have a very hard time believing that, considering sins didnt sit and take at least 30 each seconds to P2P to every player in the room.

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April 21, 2009 2:13:59 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I just want to say first off that I am glad you guys are on top of improving the MP aspect. I like the SP a lot but I am getting tired of the bots.

I have a couple of ideas

1) Try taking a lead from Steam and allow players to set up dedicated servers.

2) Then, based on reliability, and certain other standards, mark certain servers as officially sanctioned for tournament use. Players should be able to register their servers to you guys as official tournament sanctioned servers.

3) Stop using P2P. I know you think the majority of players are able to connect but I have not talked to one person who can reliably connect to games without having to wait for 30-45 minutes for players to correctly establish connection to everyone on the host.

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April 21, 2009 2:22:44 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

btw send me a message or something if you need a tester for the proxy servers ( EU dsl and can not connect to anyone )

 

 

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April 21, 2009 4:37:34 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Awesome job on these reports Brad .

 

Though I havent quite understood the european DSL stuff yet.

I live in europe and having an awful time connecting. And I pretty sure I have an ADSL or DSL connection.

Is that why I get a lot of "failed to connect to: *player name*" and lot of "disconnected from NAT facilitator" I think the error message is.

Also, Mark mentioned that its people from europe having truoble to connect to people from US, but I'm pretty sure I also have a hard time connecting to other europeans as well. In EU custom games I get a lot of connection issues as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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April 21, 2009 5:15:51 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Blackwing_dk,
Awesome job on these reports Mark .
 

Who?

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April 21, 2009 5:45:14 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I just want to say that I'm having a great time with this game so far. I've had minimal problems connecting to people, and I've never been disconnected mid-match.

The only problem right now that I see, which has probably been pointed out countless times, is the AI. I recently played a Pantheon match, I checked the connection info and it showed 4 humans connecting, counting myself, and 4 bots. To my surprise those 3 other humans were all on the forces of light, against me. So I basically ended up playing a very one sided battle; there was no hope for me to win so I just drew it on as long as I could. This also happened on the game after this as well, I was playing skirmish that time though, and my other human got dropped in the loading screen, forcing me into a 3v1 situation again.

So my suggestion would be to either remove the AI completely from multiplayer or somehow improve them, because right now they just feed the enemy free XP and gold with minimal effort.

Again, I'm sure that this has been mentioned countless times, but I just wanted to get it off my chest. I don't see how a 3v1 should ever be allowed to happen on Pantheon.

One more thing, is there any specific reason that my stats aren't showing up on this site? I've played around 6-7 games but it still says 0, and it's been around 3 days.

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April 21, 2009 5:51:43 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This doesn't sound like it will fix the "Cannot connect to a NAT facilitator." problem.

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April 21, 2009 6:00:08 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Brainless_Hu,
btw send me a message or something if you need a tester for the proxy servers ( EU dsl and can not connect to anyone ) 

I am in EU too and have 50/50 success in connecting, staying connected is a slightly better chance .

 

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April 21, 2009 6:11:19 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting slurple,
Well, I hope I don't get banned for this but... I have to disagree with you. Many (if not all) of the beta players were well aware of the connection issues and we reported them often. Anyone can search the threads prior to DG's release to find these posts. Here is one: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/340528 Around the time of this thread you also acknowledge how serious the connection issues were (I cannot find the thread where you gave it a 4 out of 10). Granted this was late february, I never saw any improvement in the network code. If you had taken a poll with the beta players a week before release, you would have found that well over 90% of us were still having serious connection issues, the same kind that people are now having after release.

I really hope this "proxy" thing helps solve the problem, but I doubt it.
Additionally, some beta testers (located in Europe) were able to play the beta just fine, but now in the released version, they "Cannot connect to a NAT facilitator."

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April 21, 2009 6:25:00 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

as an australian gamer i gotta say thank you stardock, connection right now is an epic bitch

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April 21, 2009 6:26:31 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Haree78,

Quoting Blackwing_dk, reply 15Awesome job on these reports Mark .
 
Who?

 

Fixed. I thought he was called Mark instead of Brad. No idea why

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April 21, 2009 6:35:45 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Btw. I don't see why these proxies are needed anyway. Most of the time players mark their games as "EU", "East Coast", "West Coast" etc. anyway and European players will join European games, etc., in order to have less chance of lagging.

This seems like an unproportionately big effort for something that doesn't happen a lot.

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April 21, 2009 7:26:47 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Spooky,
Btw. I don't see why these proxies are needed anyway. Most of the time players mark their games as "EU", "East Coast", "West Coast" etc. anyway and European players will join European games, etc., in order to have less chance of lagging.

This seems like an unproportionately big effort for something that doesn't happen a lot.

 

I still have problems even if I join EU games, as stated in my post above.

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April 21, 2009 8:32:02 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Blackwing_dk,
I still have problems even if I join EU games, as stated in my post above.
Exactly, that's my point.

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