Let me zoom out farther

By on April 20, 2009 2:00:23 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Spooky__

Join Date 10/2008
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Ever since Supreme Commander was introduced, edge scrolling has become an ancient technique to get the camera from one point on the map to another. The Zoom just made it superfluous.

Demigod uses the same engine and also supports the same zooming technique. However, in some situations it actually gets a bit tedious. When the UI actually blocks the point you want to zoom too, you either have to zoom in and out a couple of times near the point where you want to go to until it isn't blocked anymore... or moe the camera in another tedious way, like middle clicking, using the arrow keys or dreaded edge scrolling.

This wouldn't be a problem if you were able to zoom out more, so that on the highest zoom level (or actually the lowest, depending on what someone means by zoom level...) no UI elements can block parts of the actual map anymore. I do not understand why the zoom was limited like that in the first place. Here you are with the engine Supreme Commander was built on and here you are with those gorgeous looking maps and yet you limit the zoom, almost like if it was a Command & Conquer game or a similar stupid game .

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April 20, 2009 6:51:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I like Spookys idea. 

Several times I had to adjust and scroll the map to teleport back home to heal and buy items. Happens pretty often, maybe once or twice per game. If you have a little health left and death is not imminent it's only a small annoyance. However it happens every so often that you use a teleport scroll to get out of harms way. If that happens split seconds needed to adjust the map can become a very, very long time!

I know the engine of SupCom and I also know there's a limit to how much you can let a player zoom out until he leaves the skydome. I'm not sure how close we are to that limit on some maps. So increasing the zoom distance is maybe a problem on the larger maps. There might be another solution to the problem that requires only a few lines of code (hopefully):

Give us a Panic Button! If you hit this Panic Button you use one of your teleport scrolls (or an item) to teleport next to your healing crystal. Items should be used first since they can reload (in the off chance a player has both).

This would not only make it easier to 'escape' but would also be a nice feature for the more lazy players like me. I mean, how often do you teleport back to buy items, recharge health and mana and drop some coins into the next citadell upgrade? Wouldn't it be nice to get there by let's say presing NUM 0?

And the good thing is: if you accidentally hit the Panic Button, no harm done: give a move order and the teleport will be interrupted instantly.

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April 20, 2009 9:30:12 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I agree. But lazyness isn't my reason.

Take DotA for example, which is, let's be honest, what DG was based on. In DotA, you can click on the minimap with your items. This lets you teleport to base in a fraction of a second. If you have to scroll and zoom out in order to port out of a battle... Chances are you're already dead OR that you can't stay for the last crucial seconds in order to squeeze that last spell out.

So, either make the minimap interactive, or give us a panic button. (I would go with interactive minimap, probably harder to implement, but gives the game much more functionality.)

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April 20, 2009 9:35:32 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

  How many times did I die because I was trying to decide where to teleport !!!!

 

Panic button FTW!

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April 20, 2009 11:19:55 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Dunno why you'd want to remove something that can actually decide a battle by separating good players from bad.

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April 21, 2009 12:39:20 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Heavenfall has hit the nail on the head

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April 21, 2009 2:43:10 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,
Dunno why you'd want to remove something that can actually decide a battle by separating good players from bad.
What exactly do you mean? I don't want to remove something.

I don't really care about being able to teleport fast. I just care about the tediousness of having to scroll at all.  The zooming technique is much more convenient and it's already there, but limited for some reason. I really don't think they limited it so that you can't move around on the map quickly in order to teleport out or whatever. That just seems stupid.

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April 21, 2009 8:31:00 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Dunno why you'd want to remove something that can actually decide a battle by separating good players from bad.
Good game design helps the player and doesn't add obstacles without need. Most players will adept to these obstacles after a while and then your 'advantage' is gone. But we should never just accept something that is inconvenient because it makes it harder for new players to keep up or in this case to get the hell out of Dodge in time.

Winning should be about making the right choices, timing and experience - not about who can trick the UI/or game engine into doing what you want more often. The Panic Button will help newbie players in the first few games but it will mostly be convenient for everybody after a while.

BTW, an unexperienced player is unlikely to teleport away from a good player successfully anyway, it's easy to interrupt the teleport or land a killing blow in time.

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April 21, 2009 9:09:10 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I sign the Panic Button, though interactive minimap would be even better. Teleport isn't usually a good way to escape anyway, with so many interrupts etc. This would simply help game flow and not lessen the skill needed.

I don't see anything wrong with better zoom either, though I don't really use zoom much myself. I'm just too lazy.

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April 21, 2009 9:30:04 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Keemossi,
I don't see anything wrong with better zoom either, though I don't really use zoom much myself. I'm just too lazy.
Well, the zoom is actually much better for lazy persons . Edge Scrolling makes you move your mouse all the way to one edge and then scroll for ages. Or it makes you move your hand to the arrow keys on the keyboard. Well and middle clicking + dragging the map is also exhausting, since you have to do that over and over again, in order to get from one side of the map to the other this way.

In SupCom you quickly zoom out, move your mouse to the destination (when you are zoomed out it's a very short distance to move your mouse, so don't worry, it won't be exhausting!) and then quickly zoom in again .

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April 21, 2009 10:21:37 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Spooky,

Quoting Heavenfall, reply 4Dunno why you'd want to remove something that can actually decide a battle by separating good players from bad.What exactly do you mean? I don't want to remove something.
I don't really care about being able to teleport fast. I just care about the tediousness of having to scroll at all.  The zooming technique is much more convenient and it's already there, but limited for some reason. I really don't think they limited it so that you can't move around on the map quickly in order to teleport out or whatever. That just seems stupid.

 

You want to remove the necessity of selecting a building, if I am not mistaken.

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April 21, 2009 10:46:08 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,

Quoting Spooky, reply 6
Quoting Heavenfall, reply 4Dunno why you'd want to remove something that can actually decide a battle by separating good players from bad.What exactly do you mean? I don't want to remove something.
I don't really care about being able to teleport fast. I just care about the tediousness of having to scroll at all.  The zooming technique is much more convenient and it's already there, but limited for some reason. I really don't think they limited it so that you can't move around on the map quickly in order to teleport out or whatever. That just seems stupid.
 

You want to remove the necessity of selecting a building, if I am not mistaken.
No, Col. Jessep wants that. I just want to raise the zoom limit.

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April 21, 2009 11:07:11 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ah... confusing with two discussions in one thread. Yes, more zoom out would be nice. No argument there.

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April 21, 2009 11:49:55 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I zoom out just fine.  A flick of the mousewheel takes me from a close up standpoint to a battle overview in all of about a half a second.

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April 21, 2009 1:05:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Fennel,
I zoom out just fine.  A flick of the mousewheel takes me from a close up standpoint to a battle overview in all of about a half a second.
I don't think you read the thread or even the thread title.

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April 21, 2009 1:17:42 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I read it just fine.  I can and have zoomed out to the point that the entire map's quite small, since I enjoy looking at the scenery when I'm not currently killing something.  Zoom all the way out and bam, that's it.

Also, by comparison, the WASD panning controls move the map around much faster when you're zoomed farther out.  Just get used to it, it works just fine.

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April 21, 2009 3:15:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Fennel,
I read it just fine.  I can and have zoomed out to the point that the entire map's quite small, since I enjoy looking at the scenery when I'm not currently killing something.  Zoom all the way out and bam, that's it.
That only works if you zoom out near the center of the map. If you zoom out near the edges only part of the map will be visible. To overcome that issue, you either have to be able to zoom out farther, or the the camera always gradually centers on the map's center, when zooming out (which happens in SupCom when fully zoomed out).

Also, by comparison, the WASD panning controls move the map around much faster when you're zoomed farther out. Just get used to it, it works just fine.
Using the arrow keys or WASD is tedious and dodgy in comparison.

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April 24, 2009 11:24:15 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Spooky,

Using the arrow keys or WASD is tedious and dodgy in comparison.

 

Right, especially when you have to use hotkeys at the same time. I only got one left hand.

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April 24, 2009 1:16:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I don't want zooming and I don't want rotating. There should be an option to lock the camera in place. Camera presets based on my preferance. Although I very rarely die, adjusting the camera afterwards is tedious.

I just need 2 presets.

MyCamera1: Isometric, zoomed at x range.

MyCamera2: Flipped 180degrees, so I can throw that fireball at the guy with 5% health, hiding behind the Rook while firing off teleport scroll

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