From Stardock: Demigod Day 0 Status Report!

By on April 14, 2009 6:21:27 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
+1491

Hi gang!

What an exciting day! I've spent literally the last 40 or so hours playing Demigod on-line or working with people on the Demigod in game chat to show them how to debug some issue or other with either their PC, their router, or some flaw in Demigod.

For those of you having trouble getting multiplayer games going, I apologize.  

You know, funny thing about running a game developer/publisher.  You look at every game that launches with some multiplayer connectivity problem or some server overload problem or whatever and think "Good grief, didn't they see this coming!?"  Well, it turns out apparently that no, no matter how well prepared you think you are, there are always going to be issues.

While I can say that there are, even as I type, many hundreds of people playing online together, mostly in Skirmish and Pantheon games, there are many hundreds of others having trouble connecting to people in custom games or having skirmish or pantheon doing something odd due to the server overload.

We are working to address it and what I mean by that is that we intend to release another update this week to deal with as much of what we've found as possible.

It's too early to tell whether Demigod is going to match the success Sins of a Solar Empire has enjoyed. But we're pretty happy with early sales even if we're not totally satisfied with the game's network performance (which is not developed by GPG but by Stardock so don't blame GPG).

With the first official day of the game's availability almost over, I'd like to give you a status report on 4 critical issues we're working on addressing:

#1 Custom Games.  The lobby and the NAT connection are seperate which, in hindsight, wasn't an ideal design decision. It's something that can be addressed but it'll take some days to do it.  Basically, the connection system needs to be more like a lobby where the host can eject users who have problematic setups, slow ping times, etc.  In any other game, if you create a game and you see a user who's got a slow ping, you'd eject them probably.  But here, they have to first connect to everyone else.  And that assumes their router isn't set up like fort knox whicha lot of users clearly have.

#2 You're connected but not in the game. This appears to be a genuine bug on our part. We're looking to address this and with any luck we'll be able to provide an updated build today or tomorrow. This is a very frustrating problem for users.

#3 The Pantheon / Skirmish games create uneven teams and such.  This is mostly due to a lack of data for the system to work off of. When it was developed, it had a ton of beta tester win loss data to create balanced teams. Plus, from a "fun" point of view it was designed to try to get a skilled player versus 2 or 3 unski-er less experienced players as we found that pretty fun during the beta but the problem is, with everyone starting out with the same rating, it ends up with some bad results.  This situation will iron itself out in the next couple of days on its own but now you know why it's happening.

#4 Server Load.  We can't complete this list without talking about the overall server load Demigod's Pantheon and community features are using. A lot of this is simply volume but part of this is just finding areas where certain calls were being made too often. This will take a bit of time to address but I expect by the end of the week it'll be pretty responsive if not sooner.

As some of you know, we're all over the forums and on the chat channels hanging out. 

So how can we make any of this up to you? Well, we've decided one way is to expand on something that our partners at Ironclad (developers of Sins of a Solar Empire) really got going when Sins came out and that is put a lot of "Stardockians" online to play multiplayer games with people later this week.

These Stardockians will be on to help show people how to play the game, give them tips and provide just a good online experience. For people who found themselves trying to get a game going today and couldn't due to server overloads or network connectivity, you'll be able to get a good game going with us.

Thanks for your patience. We'll keep you up to date! 

Cheers

 

Brad "Frogboy" Wardell
President / CEO of Stardock

p.s. I'm on the chat channels if anyone needs me. Though I do plan to get some sleep in the next few hours once we have made some progress on an updated DLL for improving network connectivity.

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Killerguppi
GuyNice
April 14, 2009 11:18:32 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Go get some sleep!!

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April 14, 2009 11:34:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

no get multiplayer working!

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April 14, 2009 11:36:54 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Maybe ill wait a few weeks before I open demigod again. I would rather wait than get frustrated.

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April 14, 2009 11:59:23 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Cowbuttzex,
Maybe ill wait a few weeks before I open demigod again. I would rather wait than get frustrated.

Could always play single player and sharpen your skills. (least you get ot play it, need to upgrade my computer before I can. >.> Although I know much more about computers now since my brother was no help on finding out all the stuff I needed.)

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April 15, 2009 7:16:14 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Brad,

Thanks for a great game. We are having a blast with it here over LAN. Based on experience with GC2 and SINS, I know this is just the beginning and that's the most exciting part. I'm in this for the long haul.

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April 15, 2009 9:10:04 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You guys rock.  Thanks for the update. 

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April 15, 2009 9:22:02 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Althought having a lot of faith in Stardock (really earned faith) I disagree.

The game was meant of coming out without that many flaws as you always bragging about having the retail game with few to zero issue and balanced using update only for improvement. And you used that as a good point in your develpement against other developer method.

In true, even with a so good beta phases, the game come out unfinished, with still some unbalance (stun spam, more players with the same demigod, and you can see in pantheon the reason why dark side is better, TB), a really bad matchmaking (still too difficult to connect to other players and there're peek of lag). And I hope more content will come because in the end there're only 8 maps and 8 demigod and so few way to develop them. I have also to say that Demigod will probably be difficult to learn  for new players being it not selfexplained or having a simil tutorial way to learn it. Also objective are not clearly stated on the screen when needed.

The good point is that the slowdown are almost gone especially when you win or lose.

 

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April 15, 2009 9:35:48 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks Mr. Wardell.

Perhaps you should make it so that whenever someone makes a new thread, they are auto-directed to this one first? Seeing as how people are too lazy to actually search for other topics, yet so quick to make a new thread whining and moaning.

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April 15, 2009 9:36:04 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Mik, in the beta, the light side one every pantheon tournament.  The dark side having the lead in 1 tournament is indicative of nothing.

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April 15, 2009 10:19:24 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Good to hear that you are working on it and i hope it will get resolved asap so i can start enjoying the game, getting a bit fed up with singleplayer and bots

And i hope you fix the problems BEFORE you start playing

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April 15, 2009 10:51:59 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Serious, nothing bad I can say about these guys. I do look forward to schooling Frogboy in-game though

-Mord

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April 15, 2009 11:52:45 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Mr. Wardell made me a believer in Stardock years ago. I pre-ordered Demigod without reading much of anything about it, or playing it, or pretty much anything else. You see, I know it will be good because it's Stardock. If it isn't great at launch, I know Stardock will make it great soon enough. That trust doesn't come easily from me, but Stardock has earned it with their previous software. I look forward to playing Demigod for a long time to come.

To those having issues, sit back, relax, and give the devs a little space; you can bet the issues will be resolved, likely sooner than later.

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April 15, 2009 12:03:03 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Please don't go promoting that people should kick players with slightly higher pings! Then anybody who lives any distance away from the US, where the majority of players are, will never get a game. My ping sits slightly higher because I'm australian, most times when i join a game people tell me to stop downloading my ping is too high. I say I'm not downloading I'm australian, i have trans-pacific lag to deal with and a nation with crappy broadband. I get kicked. It's frustrating.

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April 15, 2009 12:28:14 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting MIK,
stun spam, more players with the same demigod, and you can see in pantheon the reason why dark side is better, TB), a really bad matchmaking (still too difficult to connect to other players and there're peek of lag). And I hope more content will come because in the end there're only 8 maps and 8 demigod and so few way to develop them. I have also to say that Demigod will probably be difficult to learn  for new players being it not selfexplained or having a simil tutorial way to learn it. Also objective are not clearly stated on the screen when needed.

 

Last I checked, stun spam was (supposed) to have been dealt with via a short immunity period.  I haven't had the chance to actually test it, but it certainly looks like that part is working.  "MOre players with the same Demigod" means nothing to me -- are you saying having multiple 'copies' of the same Demi on the battlefield is a flaw?  If so, LOL.  As far as matchmaking goes, Brad's addressed that -- the database still hasn't been 'built', so naturally you aren't going to have any data to match with.

 

8 Demis and 8 Maps is plenty of material, especially if they add more as development continues, and it's not that difficult to learn 'from scratch'... I managed it with pretty much zero understanding of DOTA because I've played exactly one game of Dota, years and years ago.

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April 15, 2009 12:43:01 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks for keeping us updated so quickly with the issues Froggy!!

Having dealt with release day issues so much in the past, I have to say you guys did well. Don't mind the nay-sayers as they've obviously never been around when Warhammer or World of Warcraft or Star Craft first released with horrid bnet or balance issues rooted so deep they had to remove multiple classes at release.

Beta with a few thousand users != release with TENS of thousands of users. Release week, month, and sometimes year is always the issue with online games. And it will always be.

 

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April 15, 2009 4:36:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

1up have released an article about this post:

 

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3173740

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April 15, 2009 5:02:14 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting MIK,
Althought having a lot of faith in Stardock (really earned faith) I disagree.

The game was meant of coming out without that many flaws as you always bragging about having the retail game with few to zero issue and balanced using update only for improvement. And you used that as a good point in your develpement against other developer method.

In true, even with a so good beta phases, the game come out unfinished, with still some unbalance (stun spam, more players with the same demigod, and you can see in pantheon the reason why dark side is better, TB), a really bad matchmaking (still too difficult to connect to other players and there're peek of lag). And I hope more content will come because in the end there're only 8 maps and 8 demigod and so few way to develop them. I have also to say that Demigod will probably be difficult to learn  for new players being it not selfexplained or having a simil tutorial way to learn it. Also objective are not clearly stated on the screen when needed.

The good point is that the slowdown are almost gone especially when you win or lose.

 

out of all the posts, i just had to lol at yours.   ive played for roughly a days worth of game time, and so far ive been able to learn the better part of the game. the stun spams, while i havent had to deal with them since i wasnt in beta, seem to be non existant. as for material, well theres plenty to start with and with promises of more comming im quite content.

as for the OP, awesome that the little kinks are getting ironed out, and cant wait to jump into the Pantheon.

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April 15, 2009 5:10:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Toonook,
Please don't go promoting that people should kick players with slightly higher pings! Then anybody who lives any distance away from the US, where the majority of players are, will never get a game. My ping sits slightly higher because I'm australian, most times when i join a game people tell me to stop downloading my ping is too high. I say I'm not downloading I'm australian, i have trans-pacific lag to deal with and a nation with crappy broadband. I get kicked. It's frustrating.

If you have a high ping, you are a liability to yourself and others. I'm not sure what to suggest here other than to move to the USA (yes, I know it's not easy, I've done it myself), or Canada. Or Mexico, if you can stomach the drug gangs. Or host or join a game for Australian/Oceania users (this is why we have a peer-to-peer ingame network architecture).

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April 15, 2009 5:21:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting GreenReaper,

Quoting Toonook, reply 13Please don't go promoting that people should kick players with slightly higher pings! Then anybody who lives any distance away from the US, where the majority of players are, will never get a game. My ping sits slightly higher because I'm australian, most times when i join a game people tell me to stop downloading my ping is too high. I say I'm not downloading I'm australian, i have trans-pacific lag to deal with and a nation with crappy broadband. I get kicked. It's frustrating.
If you have a high ping, you are a liability to yourself and others. I'm not sure what to suggest here other than to move to the USA (yes, I know it's not easy, I've done it myself), or Canada. Or Mexico, if you can stomach the drug gangs. Or host or join a game for Australian/Oceania users (this is why we have a peer-to-peer ingame network architecture).


honestly i played a game with a fair amount of aussie players and the ping was not at all that bad. the game was real smooth and, even though it was my first loss, mostly lag free. not sure if others are experiencing issues with that but i for one am not.

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April 15, 2009 7:26:40 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It's posts like this that for me, as a comnsumer, are missing across most developers and publishers. As a consumer all I really want is forthright honesty and a basic modicum of non-pretentious respect. Stardock is kindly providing both.

 

I purchased and have had no reall tecnhical issues with the game, though I have only been playing single player skirmishes but I can appreciate the frustration of many players and it's good to see a geniune recognition of their problems that is more then "Were sorry, working on it"

 

Coupled with the lack of DRM and this sort of customer relations, I'd have bought the game even if I never intended to play it. You have my support for doing things the way you do.


We all make mistakes, and have hurdles. Most people appreciate that what we don't appreciate is feeling like we a being glossed over. You have done a fine job of making sure most of us don't feel that way.

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April 15, 2009 7:33:58 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Bravo Azazel005

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April 15, 2009 7:58:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Please can you make this a sticky in the tech support forum.

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April 15, 2009 8:20:56 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I never said that I don't have faith in Stardock or that they won't fix these issues but is a fact that the game came out with some underjudgment flaw. Even without the anticiped release that flaw existed. Until beta was on that didn't matter but when a game is released it's critical and point out how good the work was done.

I also never said that the game is bad or similar. It's indeed good graphically, run almost smothly, and most of the time is challenging and enjoiable. A bit unpolished. I just said that it was released when probably more work was needed and that probably as the things are now there won't be too much of choosing in the game due to limited content.

About balance, even being a not so good player like I am, I still can tell when a thing is balanced or not (and please don't cite Starcraft that was really very balanced when it came out). Also stun immunities and other things was done because stun and slow made the game frustrating. Well being against 2 TorchBearer that spam stun or slow alternatively and run far and back continuosly without being able to do nothing, is frustrating. Stun immunities is really short and there's no side effect in spamming stun (it should cost a lot more mana I think). So that's a thing I don't thing was fixed. Also having many copies of the same demigod make even more difficult to balance the game because every demigod has some way to counter another but not to counter multiple copies of them.

I have to say that I don' like even the anticriticism everytime someone post something that is not "Yey you are da best, we would have played the game even if you released the alpha" that is kinda the thing that ruin game developent the most.

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April 15, 2009 8:24:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Azazel005,
It's posts like this that for me, as a comnsumer, are missing across most developers and publishers. As a consumer all I really want is forthright honesty and a basic modicum of non-pretentious respect. Stardock is kindly providing both.

 

I purchased and have had no reall tecnhical issues with the game, though I have only been playing single player skirmishes but I can appreciate the frustration of many players and it's good to see a geniune recognition of their problems that is more then "Were sorry, working on it"

 

Coupled with the lack of DRM and this sort of customer relations, I'd have bought the game even if I never intended to play it. You have my support for doing things the way you do.


We all make mistakes, and have hurdles. Most people appreciate that what we don't appreciate is feeling like we a being glossed over. You have done a fine job of making sure most of us don't feel that way.

I agree 100%.  Just be honest, give it to me straight and show that you care.  Keep the lines of communication open and updating as often as you can (which I think Stardock does very well) goes a long long way.

 

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April 15, 2009 8:38:05 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting ,
Hi gang!What an exciting day! I've spent literally the last 40 or so hours playing Demigod on-line or working with people on the Demigod in game chat to show them how to debug some issue or other with either their PC, their router, or some flaw in Demigod.For those of you having trouble getting multiplayer games going, I apologize.  You know, funny thing about running a game developer/publisher.  You look at every game that launches with some multiplayer connectivity problem or some server overload problem or whatever and think "Good grief, didn't they see this coming!?"  Well, it turns out apparently that no, no matter how well prepared you think you are, there are always going to be issues.While I can say that there are, even as I type, many hundreds of people playing online together, mostly in Skirmish and Pantheon games, there are many hundreds of others having trouble connecting to people in custom games or having skirmish or pantheon doing something odd due to the server overload.We are working to address it and what I mean by that is that we intend to release another update this week to deal with as much of what we've found as possible.It's too early to tell whether Demigod is going to match the success Sins of a Solar Empire has enjoyed. But we're pretty happy with early sales even if we're not totally satisfied with the game's network performance (which is not developed by GPG but by Stardock so don't blame GPG).With the first official day of the game's availability almost over, I'd like to give you a status report on 4 critical issues we're working on addressing:#1 Custom Games.  The lobby and the NAT connection are seperate which, in hindsight, wasn't an ideal design decision. It's something that can be addressed but it'll take some days to do it.  Basically, the connection system needs to be more like a lobby where the host can eject users who have problematic setups, slow ping times, etc.  In any other game, if you create a game and you see a user who's got a slow ping, you'd eject them probably.  But here, they have to first connect to everyone else.  And that assumes their router isn't set up like fort knox whicha lot of users clearly have.#2 You're connected but not in the game. This appears to be a genuine bug on our part. We're looking to address this and with any luck we'll be able to provide an updated build today or tomorrow. This is a very frustrating problem for users.#3 The Pantheon / Skirmish games create uneven teams and such.  This is mostly due to a lack of data for the system to work off of. When it was developed, it had a ton of beta tester win loss data to create balanced teams. Plus, from a "fun" point of view it was designed to try to get a skilled player versus 2 or 3 unski-er less experienced players as we found that pretty fun during the beta but the problem is, with everyone starting out with the same rating, it ends up with some bad results.  This situation will iron itself out in the next couple of days on its own but now you know why it's happening.#4 Server Load.  We can't complete this list without talking about the overall server load Demigod's Pantheon and community features are using. A lot of this is simply volume but part of this is just finding areas where certain calls were being made too often. This will take a bit of time to address but I expect by the end of the week it'll be pretty responsive if not sooner.As some of you know, we're all over the forums and on the chat channels hanging out. So how can we make any of this up to you? Well, we've decided one way is to expand on something that our partners at Ironclad (developers of Sins of a Solar Empire) really got going when Sins came out and that is put a lot of "Stardockians" online to play multiplayer games with people later this week.These Stardockians will be on to help show people how to play the game, give them tips and provide just a good online experience. For people who found themselves trying to get a game going today and couldn't due to server overloads or network connectivity, you'll be able to get a good game going with us.Thanks for your patience. We'll keep you up to date! Cheers Brad "Frogboy" WardellPresident / CEO of Stardockp.s. I'm on the chat channels if anyone needs me. Though I do plan to get some sleep in the next few hours once we have made some progress on an updated DLL for improving network connectivity.

 

Thanks for the news and update, much appreciated. Will be picking up my copy of Demigod soon, despite my uncertainty about my router being up to snuff. I might need some help getting my connection all set up and ready to go before hopping Online, but I guess I'll see when I get the game.

From what I gather, this game has far more players Online than Sins did at launch despite the networking issues.

Also, just wondering, as I am not entirely sure how alloy works... is it possible to implement that system with Demigod? When Alloy was released it seemed to alleviate a lot of problems with Sins connectivity. I assume it wouldn't because Demigod uses UDP rather than TCP.... I'm a freshman IT college student so I'm still getting the grasp of how networking well, works.

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