Demigod AI: Stupid stuff

By on February 27, 2009 8:38:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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Please post here all the things you think that would make the AI more effective.

 

Thanks!

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February 27, 2009 8:42:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I have to put the AI's attack priorities into question:

Minions will move away from the target you designated to attack and focus on others before finishing off the original target.

This is same for the Demigods, in my experience, as well. After a few auto-attacks against a Demigod target, s/he will switch to a creep/minion that is nearby, without any real reason to. The Demigod is still in range, hasn't made itself immune* or anything. Because of this, it has now sort of become like diablo, having to repeatedly attack on the same target to keep the DG/minons focused.

 

*That would be a good reason for your Demigod/minion/creep to halt their attack on the target.

 

Melee(minotaurs etc) units shouldn't be chasing around angels when there are ground units near them. Ranged units would be best to prioritise angels at the top.

AI should not ignore an Oak's ward that he has planted.

Ranged/fragile Demigods should not be charging into melee range of the enemy.

 

 

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March 2, 2009 5:40:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I would like to see them work as a team against someone. It seems like they are always solo trying to go it alone. Until they are backed against the citadel

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March 2, 2009 6:01:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

* They towerdive easily...just lure them behind your towers and they're dead for sure.

* Run away from you in the wrong direction: sometimes they go to the left or right instead of withdraw.

* No teamplay...again.

* You do not feel they notice your current status or seize the menace you are. I can take down a full-hp AI with just 1/5 of mine.

 

 

EDIT: AI in DOTA was cheesy and passively overpowered because individually they will never be better than a human player. Instead they had their combos learned and had a perfect teamplay "by the book".

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March 2, 2009 6:01:23 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think u should make it so they dodn't chase as much into towers, yes they should fight together and attack the demigod with the least health.

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March 2, 2009 6:01:27 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Don´t know if the AI is currently knowing which mode is played. In the domination mode (in which you´ll have to capture those flags in order to increase your counter) they aren´t really going for the flags. They´re just playing like allways.

The AI could maybe a little bit more passive attitude towars towers. They´re often running into them and when they´ll recognize, that their hps aren´t that good, they decided to go back, or using a teleport scroll. Most of the time, they´ll die this way (this is sad, especially in slaughter games).

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March 2, 2009 6:48:26 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I may be wrong, but AI was less bold in beta 2. Nightmare rook was a real pain in the ass (we were less experienced, though) and displayed a big use of evasion tactics. This is the main point now, they just seem to have lost their sense of danger.

 

->imput into AI a sens of dangerous things. Not based only of HP threshold, but on HP loss rate as well, as would a decent player do. Of course mitigate this with achieving something : reaching a life potion/dealing last blow to a demigod.

Lower the escaping threshold when key skill cooldowns are not finished. Set it higher when warpstone or other protective item is available and ready.

Add "friendly ground" notion as well. Its defined by presence of large reinforcement or friendly tower. Add support, defined by non retreating allied demigod in vicinity

this would result on the "hazard" test. Of course things can be quadratic or more to express very important values (for instance super low HP levels) 

a *HP - b *HP/dt + c * Goal -d * (CD to go) + e * (protection) + f * (friendly ground) + h * (support) < RetreatValue ?

 

As said, they tend to change target easily, as well as minions and our own demigods as soon as their previous order was cancelled. So to make things clearer

->on player avatars and minions, resume whatever target they were aiming for as soon as an interruption ends.

->when choosing target on their own, tweaks priority list:

for non AOE heavy demigods (beast, regulus, torch without nova, etc)

1 : demigod attacking me/attacked by teammate

2 : melee minions dealing damage to myself

3 : demigod ignoring me

4 : catapultaurii/priest

5 : other minions

6 : angels.

 

AOE demigods can ignore melee minions and angels. Just make them cast the apocalypse when enough people is at range.

 

And of course give them objectives. Let them stay against a flag when someone try to cap it, so long as their are not menaced.

 

Of course help creatures with their pathfinding on some maps, like the dreaded crucible. I don't know what pathfiding technique is used, but putting navigation clues on the maps should be possible.

 

 

 

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March 3, 2009 2:19:07 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

-AI Demigods with Bat Swarm, Warpstone, Cloak of Elfinkind, or Cloak of Night should recognize gaps in terrain as passable through use of teleports.  I left a game of Crucible, against a L20 Nightmare Erebus, up for over 6 hours last night (the game crashed while I was asleep, while I had 1.24 Million Gold), but the Erebus would always run straight to the point I had blocked when all he would've had to do to win was teleport behind me and capture flags from there.  I did not move for several hours and never once died (had 5 Artifacts equipped and an artifact in each item slot).

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March 3, 2009 6:42:17 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The A.I is not affraid of Rook hammer.

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March 31, 2009 7:38:17 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Some progress is made here, but still for beta 3E

AI will go to far into the enemy territory. And get killed by towers. Easy to lure them into your defence.

AI standing by towers which are under attack to regenerate health. They will get killed in the process.

Sometimes AI just runs to an area and passes an enemy which will ofcourse attack. The attacked DG will continue his plan until his health drops to much. Then it is already too late.

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March 31, 2009 11:41:47 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

  • Play more defensively.  As training for new players, the AI should focus on staying alive and being hard to kill instead of always trying to get a kill.  In a real game with good players the kill count will often be low for the first part of the game and it isn't until players are strong enough to tank towers (or the towers are destroyed) that you start to see demigod kills.
  • If there is no reason to retreat, don't.  I've seen the AI run up, swing twice, then run away.  While annoying this doesn't really serve a purpose if I'm not in range of towers or creeps and it's detrimental if I'm a ranged attacker.
  • Exploit known balance issues.  The AI doesn't stack slow, doesn't utilize Deep Freeze combo, doesn't stun before hammer slamming, etc.
  • Teamwork.
    • Sedna should always be casting heals on nearby teammates if she has the mana and they are low enough to absorb a full heal.
    • Oak should shield any ally teammate that is low on health.
    • Queen should never really have her shield on cooldown unless all allies are shielded.
    • Rook/Frost TB should use stuns defensively if they have them if a teammate is being attacked by multiple attackers.

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April 2, 2009 12:50:49 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It sometimes seems like the AI is oblivious to what I have up my sleeve.  I don't expect it to guess the items I'm carrying, but if I've been fireballing it for 1300 damage, it should probably start running away *before* it gets to 1300 hit points.  It seems to me like it isn't taking this sort of thing into account.

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April 2, 2009 3:39:33 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Please give us the option to turn off AI replacement when a player leaves or is disconnected.

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April 2, 2009 3:56:08 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I would rather see AI not be worth money when killed.  That way they are still a factor but they don't feed.

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April 2, 2009 11:21:18 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

They'd still be worth nothing, and making them be worth nothing at all would be weird.  The best and easiest option IMO is to just allow players to turn them off.  Even if the AI were great it just seems weird to me to think that I could be playing a serious rated game, a player drops or something, and then an AI takes over.  Serious matches should always involve players, not AI.

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April 2, 2009 12:27:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

A player dropping from the game and not being replaced basically means it's game-over for their team.

A player dropping and getting replaced by an AI worth 0 gold means their team still has a chance, they just have to follow around the AI if they want to utilize it's damage output.

A player dropping and getting replaced by an AI worth gold means the AI will be farmed for gold by the other team which generally means game over for the dropping player's team.

Sure, no one leaving is ideal but that's unrealistic.  The second best option is to make the AI not worth gold when killed.  Third best option is to have a *really* strong AI that ranks highly so you can appropriately replace player's with AIs.

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April 2, 2009 7:44:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I disagree.  I'd rather have the player not be replaced and his gold dispersed to the team than have an AI replace them.

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April 3, 2009 5:09:33 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Maybe there is a way to increase the experience, damage and gold, rather than replacing a player by AI

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April 3, 2009 10:20:11 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

On stupid AI -

3E AI is better at not following you all the way back to your crystal when you are kiting but they will still chase you to within range of your tower Defense if they have 50% or more health than you.  If you draw them across your towers laterally you can kite them to death just as easily as you could when they followed you all the way in.   

I know kiting is a difficult concept for bots, but if the AI doesn't improve significantly on a team basis then it would be nice to have a couple of simple commands you can issue to allied AI DGs -

Follow - AI follows within 10 paces of Player DG and aids him in battle

Stay - AI stays in a 10x10 area and will attack every enemy unit that comes in range

Just implementing those two commands would make 3 v 3 where one player drops and is replaced by AI a much more viable game.  Right now a team with AI (like a team with noobs who don't listen to their veteran teammates) will lose every time because the AI killfeeds like no tommorrow.  At least bring AI up to the level of newbs who do listen.

Also, AI replacing players should be default nightmare, unless otherwise selected in the game lobby. 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

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April 3, 2009 10:34:27 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Gabberkooij,
Maybe there is a way to increase the experience, damage and gold, rather than replacing a player by AI

 

Yes, I would prefer something along these lines.  Though probably more like just a gold / experience handicap, not damage or actual Demigod stats.

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April 4, 2009 9:01:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This one might be too subtle to expect the AI to get, but I thought I'd mention it.

 

I was playing as Oak earlier today (it matters that I was a melee character).  At one point in the game, I was fighting an AI in the center of the map when it decided it was time to run.  I had a lot of health and it was near-dead, so I chased it through its towers.  They zapped me enough that I was in danger of dying -- but the AI kept running and I got to hit it 2-3 more times in between the first set of towers and the second one, killing it.

 

The AI should have stopped while it was between the first set of towers -- it didn't have the speed to outrun me, so the tower support was its only hope, and the towers had already nearly killed me.  If it had turned around and started attacking me, I probably would have died, and I definitely would have had to run.

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April 7, 2009 12:59:26 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Here's another minor one: the AI likes to use teleport scrolls pointlessly.  The case I most often notice is on Crucible: it'll run from the base to the first external set of towers, then teleport to the second set.  If it wants to teleport, it should do that from the base -- by the time it gets to the first pair of towers, it's nearly as fast to run to the second pair as it is to teleport there!

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