Another Idea for gameplay: Should be able to redirect your creep waves to some extent

By on December 20, 2008 8:03:33 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

MaRiO-

Join Date 10/2008
+1

I think you should be able to control what paths your creeps get to take. Not to the extend where you can put all the creeps in the same lane

but in maps like levanithan with the portals on the side who should be able to redirect them and choose where you want them to push.

Whether this should be an ability for only generals or for both heroes I think it would be a nice addition and add alot of strategy. Also if you add for just generals it would give them a much needed buff, and it also makes alot of since.

Your Thoughts?

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December 20, 2008 8:23:18 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'd love to see SupCom overlays for the paths of units (Hold Shift and you can see the path).

Being able to drag them where you like would be pretty amazing. Dunno how it would work in practice though.

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December 20, 2008 8:37:32 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think it could be good to let Generals have some control over the creeps' paths.  We would have to actually try it to tell how well it would work, however :/

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December 20, 2008 9:01:41 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

If you are able to at least control the creeps you get from the flag portals it would actually give a reason for you to capture these in the first place.

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December 20, 2008 10:04:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I dont like this idea.

 

I like how you have to interact with the creepwaves and not the other way round.

 

Perhaps on some single maps but never as a general possibility.

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December 20, 2008 11:40:43 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I do like the idea of being able to bend the paths to take other routes, like choosing all creeps to go on direction...but picking who gets to make the choice? I don't know. I wouldnt be against everyone being able to, but would...cause conflicts in public games (would kick for coodinated teams though)

Would just be nice if you captured a neutral portal to be able to guide the grunts to merge with those from your base.

Edit: To agree with Vivi, I dont want individual control. I just think it would be nice to move the routes around. You could actually out-maneuver someone or have a LARGE push. It would also help with the problems people have of not being able to deny exp.
It would also make games a LOT less repeditive to not see creeps running the same path endlessly.

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December 22, 2008 5:02:07 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I just brought up as a possible buff to the generals that makes alot of sense and really makes them feel like there generals.

And Like teseer said I think it would rock for coordinated teams and add a bit of depth to the gameplay. Just a thought

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December 22, 2008 5:13:49 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Sorry, I haven't played enough to know how the generals work, but my thought is that the generals could have an ability where they drop a rally point, or place a rally point.  The rally point might not work well, different levels of ability, like it might only attract 20% of the creeps at first level.  Plus, if other generals on your team dropped rally points, they might redirect some creeps, split the waves, whatever.  Or you could drop multiple rally points, and they would have some partial attraction to the creeps, guiding some of them down certain lanes.

 

Thoughts?

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December 22, 2008 5:19:43 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I like that idea, Just dont know if it would work. I really do not want the generals to have a direct control over the creeps but more of an indirect control if you understand what im saying.

All I know is that I really want my generals to have at least some control on the creeps and really be masters of pushing.

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December 22, 2008 5:34:19 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I Thought about it and I really thing it would help the gameplay a lot.

I came up with this for my idea...

Ok.
Red - Rallypoints
Blue - Team Grunts
Orange - Neutral Grunts
Yellow - End Points

I think you team should be able to drag the corners of these paths to other rallypoints. It should take effect the NEXT grunt wave.

Which would allow you to swap where they all go VERY easily. You have to end at the citidel obviously. And you have to have paths TO the rallypoints.
Hell, you could even do this...

Obviously only 1 team to prevent confusion...but you see what I mean.

And like I said before, I think it should use the SupCom move command look.
You know, this.

What do you think?

Apologies if the pictures are too big. If its too bad I'll make em links.

Edit: I just used Z because it's really easy to use as an example

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December 22, 2008 8:26:47 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Good points, mostly. User deployable rally points I think are a bad idea because a general could essentially grief both his team and his opponents by sending the creeps on a massively circuitous route that helps no one (Creeps wouldn't be attacking the enemy, enemy wouldn't be gaining EXP).

I particularly like Teseer's representation of the idea (+1 Karma for you), but I have one reservation. This is all well and good in maps like Ziggurat and Leviathan, but in open maps like Prison you've got no obvious paths to funnel creeps down you run into some issues. Where do you set the rally points there? How do you avoid the obvious paths through the level that already exist where a demigod can just avoid them if they want to? It's fine in Prison because it's a small map but if there are larger open maps I think it'd be a problem.

Granted it's better than the current system where everyone knows where the creeps are going, but it still needs a little work.

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December 22, 2008 12:02:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I don't agree with the idea, the creep lanes are well implemented to make u have to push where you want to attack.

For instance in the 5v5 map or the 4x4 u can attack from the sides and do some nice damage, u just need to control the portal and help the creeps push a bit from that side. Once you have plenty of towers destroyed you can change from where you are attacking pretty quickly. I think that part (the lanes) is good as it is, as long as they keep implementing maps right.

Edit: And about the generals, they are pretty strong if well played, 12 creatures to control is enough in my opinion.

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December 22, 2008 3:18:51 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Well, the changing lanes is a risk vs reward to me. If you funnel everyone to a single path, then you:
A!) Give the enemy team free exp and lots of it.
B!) Leave all your other sides open to creep waves.

I really really think this will help add a lot of depth to gameplay.

Edit: Also, about Prison. I havnt figured that one out yet

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December 22, 2008 6:25:26 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Maybe you shouldnt be able to control your main creeps and only the flag portals you get. I think thats more fair.

O just got an idea

or maybe you can implement this into the citadel upgrades and make it allow you to alter the paths and the extend be based on how many upgrades you have on it.
Maybe on the first upgrade you can alter only 1 rally point 2nd upgrade 2 etc.

I like that idea

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December 22, 2008 7:05:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I like that. I also like the neutral portals being changable. I think that gives a LOT more incentive to keep them.

Just would need to make sure you keep your paths after you lose the flag and cap it again

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December 23, 2008 12:13:36 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I dream of this being put in now. I really think this would add a lot of depth. Great idea Mario.

I mean, one of the first things people I show the game to ask is can you interact with the grunts at all. I would actually be able to answer yes!

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December 23, 2008 2:30:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think the path control options would be the most likely to be implemented, but I just wanted to put in a little more support for my user deployable rally points, as Mooglepics described it.  What I am trying to describe in this idea, is that they aren't actually "rally" points per se.  Sorry, I am not so good with the paint program, so I am going to try to explain my idea with words.

 

Imagine the Creeps as ferrous metal balls.  The citadels are force 100% magnets, drawing the opposite teams' creeps towards them.  Users deployable force 20% (at 1st level) 40% at second level, etc.) magnets can be placed only where the users have actually walked.  As you can imagine, the creeps will not actually change direction fully towards the "deployed magnets."  They are forced to always move towards the citadels, and are lightly drawn to "deplyoed magnets."  It would be similar to Teseer's idea, however, ony the player characters could change the path by moving to the location and dropping a "magnet."  The creeps will ALWAYS go towards the citadel, but can be drawn left or right as they go.

 

Does anyone understand that weird description?

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December 23, 2008 2:59:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I understand it completly:D.

 

But I do not agree. The problem is pathfinding, this will bug the shit out of this game. Also I'd say the effort is not enough for the gain.

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December 23, 2008 3:09:40 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I support the idea for Generals.  They should only control creeps that they turned or maybe a creep that they spawned at in the beginning of the game.

 

Zorph

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December 23, 2008 5:58:12 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Mario and Teseer, can you explain the citadel upgrade idea a bit further?  I'm not sure I understand how it would work ingame.

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December 24, 2008 9:09:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i think u guys need to forget all games that u ever played and start thinking that this is a new game and ppl want new things... not turn this game in another but in the n.1 game. if u wanna play whit total control of your troops just get any of the million rts... the point of the game its help your team win... even teams at start of the game, demigods make the diference by the player gameplay... whats the point of controling the rest of the troops, or even influence their moves??? i really dont see any point on that... just my way of seeing things of course

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December 24, 2008 10:20:12 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This is different from commanding your troops like an RTS.  The creeps are still, for the most part, uncontrollable critters that run around and fight for you.  They still act as an endless stalemate that waits to be broken by the Demigods.  This isn't a full RTS style control scheme, but some amount of control would be most welcome.  I like the idea of preset waypoints that you can change between.

I don't like the idea of them being tied to a Citadel upgrade.  I think you should be able to change them anywhere from the beggining.  I think it would throw a chaotic, fun, and most importantly tactical spin on the current early game.

I disagree that only generals should be able to do this.  Having a General would become a necessity.  Random community games would be disasterous if one team was only Assassins, and 1v1 Assassin vs. General would be decidedly in favor of the General.  Or Generals would have to be very weak to compensate, and thus all competitive 5v5 teams would be 4 Assassins and 1 General.

Instead of just generals, I think that one person would have to be the "creep manager" for each flag.  Here's what I propose.  In the lobby, you put an option that basically says if you want to be a creep manager or not.  If you check it, then you are telling the game that you want to command the creeps.  The starting portals are then randomly divvied up between the creep managers.  If there are no creep managers, then the starting portals are just randomly divvied up.  If you capture a portal flag, then you become the creep manager for that flag.  It would also be critical that you would be able to give your creep manager title for a specific flag to another player.

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December 25, 2008 12:18:59 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Random_Guy,
This is different from commanding your troops like an RTS.  The creeps are still, for the most part, uncontrollable critters that run around and fight for you.  They still act as an endless stalemate that waits to be broken by the Demigods.  This isn't a full RTS style control scheme, but some amount of control would be most welcome.  I like the idea of preset waypoints that you can change between.

I don't like the idea of them being tied to a Citadel upgrade.  I think you should be able to change them anywhere from the beggining.  I think it would throw a chaotic, fun, and most importantly tactical spin on the current early game.

I disagree that only generals should be able to do this.  Having a General would become a necessity.  Random community games would be disasterous if one team was only Assassins, and 1v1 Assassin vs. General would be decidedly in favor of the General.  Or Generals would have to be very weak to compensate, and thus all competitive 5v5 teams would be 4 Assassins and 1 General.

Instead of just generals, I think that one person would have to be the "creep manager" for each flag.  Here's what I propose.  In the lobby, you put an option that basically says if you want to be a creep manager or not.  If you check it, then you are telling the game that you want to command the creeps.  The starting portals are then randomly divvied up between the creep managers.  If there are no creep managers, then the starting portals are just randomly divvied up.  If you capture a portal flag, then you become the creep manager for that flag.  It would also be critical that you would be able to give your creep manager title for a specific flag to another player.

I like this idea

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December 29, 2008 11:42:12 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

They still act as an endless stalemate that waits to be broken by the Demigods.

Er, it's not much of a stalemate if you can route them around the enemy forces, now is it?

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