Demigod beta 2 after the break and beyond

First, there's a lot of new purchasable items in the game. That said, one type of item we're contemplating are a series of rings that players can purchase that are particularly effective against specific Demigods.

For instance, let's say there's a Demigod who does a lot of stun-based spells. There would be rings that players can purchase that can greatly diminish that effect. Similarly, there are rings that do specific damage against particular Demigods. This way, players who are somewhat skilled can equip their Demigods up to go against their specific opponents.

We're still mulling this over but we'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

In theory, yes But it's still a bit unclear what you mean by "against specific demigods". For example, the Torch Bearer has a spell that stuns. Regulus has/had (depending on the re-design I heard about) a mine that stuns. Is the ring going to be "reduces effects of Torch Bearer's spell", or "reduces effects of stun"? So I guess to put it in English - are the items going to be against overall effects (stun, slow, life leech, whatever) or specific spells that produce these similar effects? I'm sure behind the scenes in the code the TB's freeze is not identical to the Regulus' stasis mine but the in-game effect is the same - you get stunned

If the gear is to counter the effects themselves, I think that's great. If it's truly against some specific spells, not so good unless they do something else.

And thanks for the update on the timeline

My pain of waiting continus but at least i'll see sun light this weekend

Thanks for the Update Froggy, and nice to hear that the mill is rolling in GPA about how the players feel about certain areas of the game. The idea of the rings is interesting, but also questionable at the same time - for as Annatar stated, you offered a very vague example that didn't do much to inform us on what is intended. So, we're left to basically fill in the blanks based on our own experiences with the game.

So far we're seen Demigods purely develop their fighting style through Items, making their stock abilities something of a back seat to the major tweaks of the equips that go onto the character - mainly the Artifacts. These massive tweaks in Dodge, Run Speed, Life Steal, Armor, and Damage makes for radically different and difficult to predict Demigods. Yet, when you face off against a Demigod, you can see that he may be using something your current build may be weak against, and then it is time to 're-build" your build. This element of repreparing is not exactly very well tuned, as the major drive is the Artifacts, there just hasn't been a real cost effective way to sell and repurchase those without taking a HUGE loss.

Let us say that a strong, tough Demigod like the Rook has decided to go for a unstoppable tank-like god. Where his mounds of Armor, Automatic Regens, and Invulnerability make him one real tough cookie to take down without using a good 500% Increase to your overall damage output to even dent him. I would think, a good way to take out this god would be a way to considerably weaken his one our more elements of his character so I could have a shot at him. Naturally, I would choose to hit Armor most of all. But from what I assume your post suggests Froggy, is that you are looking for specific Demi-Hunter Items that only effect one, and only one of the 8 Demigod types.

If I was to buy a ring that would weaken the Armor of a Rook, it should only weaken the armor of a Rook and no other Demigod. We all know, a Torch Bearer or perhaps even a General without the right Armor is just a walking piece of paper ready to be torn apart. But what if the Rook is not going Armor heavy? What if he's going for High Damage and can one hit kill me? Then I'd want to Weaken his damage out put. But how the heck can I adjust this on the fly? Well, perhaps implementing the items can utilize a special building that gives you the ability to physically change the desired effect of your ring, or perhaps even a built in ability or Demi-Hunter Aura, with some slight penalties for the changes you wish to adjust.

Deeper Suggestings (Demi-Hunter Aura & 5 Socket Customizable Ring)

Activating the special building or object will give me a list of Demigods, each with an Icon of their faces as though I were picking them from the character creation menu. Under their portrait is a price tag which varies between Assassins and Generals. Picking one, will instantly purchase me a slight, very miner boost in effectiveness against that one Demigod type - in essence an Aura that surrounds me, perhaps turning a certain color so experienced players can learn to identify it and plan their attacks based on what they see. Since there are 8 Demigods, picking a color from the spectrum to physically represent them shouldn't be all that hard. But being able to tell them apart quickly and at a glance may be where the challenge resides.

But once I purchase this Aura, it will be be costly to remove it. I will have to not only pay a fee to take it off, but I'd also have to pay a fee to purchase a new Aura for a different Demigod, and in the process shut down all the benefits and enhancements to the other Aura I previously had. Now, I mean 'shut down' - not lose - I may want to switch back if I were rich enough. Also I feel a time limit should prevent me from switching my Auras quickly and easily, say 5 minutes?

Each Aura has a different number of Enhancements that I can buy to increase the effect and potency of that Aura against a Demigod. If I find that I am facing a tough, Armor stacked Rook a lot - I could purchase Armor crippling effects. Such as a steady adjustment in hurting armor. There will be a wide selection of areas I can adjust, Armor, Damage, Life Steal, Stun, etc. But, there can be different levels of the effect I can purchase, and perhaps I can only purchase a set number of levels. For this example, say five levels before I max out my Demi-Hunter Aura.

I could invest 2 Levels in reducing the effects, or out-right ignoring the effect of a Rook's Stun. Either Reducing the duration of it in seconds, or increasing a % chance of avoiding it. I would like to lean to the prior! I could stack that with 3 Levels of Armor Reduction, which means each hit has a % change of doing damage that neglects a certain percent of his armor. Allow me to illustrate:

Example:

Rook Hunter Aura

Selections:

Rock Breaker - Chance of ignoring armor completely.

Level 1 - All abilities have 5% chance of negelecting 50% of armor.
Level 2 - All abilities have 10% chance of negelecting 60% of armor.
Level 3 - All abilities have 15% chance of negelecting 70% of armor.
Level 4 - All abilities have 20% chance of negelecting 80% of armor.
Level 5 - All abilities have 25% chance of negelecting 90% of armor.

Persistance - Reduces duration of stun from this Demigod type alone.

Level 1 - Stun duration reduced by 50%.
Level 2 - Stun duration reduced by 60%.
Level 3 - Stun duration reduced by 70%.
Level 4 - Stun duration reduced by 80%.
Level 5 - Stun duration reduced by 90%.

Unholy Shield - Reduces all damage done by this Demigod type alone.

Level 1 - All damage taken from this demigod type is reduced by 10%.
Level 2 - All damage taken from this demigod type is reduced by 15%.
Level 3 - All damage taken from this demigod type is reduced by 20%.
Level 4 - All damage taken from this demigod type is reduced by 25%.
Level 5 - All damage taken from this demigod type is reduced by 30%.

Iron Blood - Life stealing effects from this Demigod are resisted.

Level 1 - Reduce Life Stealing effect for this Demigod type by 50%
Level 2 - Reduce Life Stealing effect for this Demigod type by 100%

Third Eye - Reduces Accuracy of the Demigod

Gravity Shift - Each attack reduces Demigod's Runspeed

Prior Experience - Increase your Accurancy against the Demigod type.

Etc, etc, etc...

Each enhancement will cost money to invest, then it becomes permanent and rolls over to effect other Demigods which apply to same conditions (differences between Generals and Assasins not fully know yet). It costs the player money to switch his/her aura to effects different Demigods that give them trouble, and each time they choose a time limit prevents them from picking another Demigod. Since they only have 5 levels to advance in, they can sell off enhancements and purchase new ones.

Were you to still follow the Ring idea, you could say each enhancements is a jewel which fits into the socket of a 5 slot ring. Ta-da! I brought the suggestion full circle back to Rings again!

Thanks for the information, I hope this suggestion comes as to some benefit.

I don't know if I am sold on this idea about the rings. I think that it could be unfair if other demigods don't have the same opprotunities to buy these rings that sort of cripple an opponents demigods powers/abilities/etc. There would have to be counters to ever demigod of equal price to be fair. This could get sticky and bland...... I love the idea of the flags though.

It'd be neat to see a flag that granted the owner a special unit spawn out of their portal.

quoting post

Hi guys, just a note where we're at. It doesn't look like we're going to have the beta ready in time for Thanksgiving. It's pretty close but even if we made it by Wednesday, with so many people off for Thanksgiving, it's just not one of those things we would feel good about putting up and leaving. We hopefully will have it the following week.

Now, that said, let's talk about some of the stuff the team at Gas Powered Games is working on as well as things we're contemplating.

First, there's a lot of new purchasable items in the game. That said, one type of item we're contemplating are a series of rings that players can purchase that are particularly effective against specific Demigods.

For instance, let's say there's a Demigod who does a lot of stun-based spells. There would be rings that players can purchase that can greatly diminish that effect. Similarly, there are rings that do specific damage against particular Demigods. This way, players who are somewhat skilled can equip their Demigods up to go against their specific opponents.

We're still mulling this over but we'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

Another concept we're contemplating on implementing are active flags. That is, if you capture a flag, that flag may give you a power you can make use of that would mostly take the form of building a special type of tower that would further magnify the effect of that flag. Other flags with different powers may make their way in based on time/budget but the idea here is that capturing flags wouldn't just give you a passive bonus to your team but also an active power you can make use of on the map tactically.

I would not make any items effective versus specific Demigods - you`d be travelling down the exact and clinical road of paper/scissors/rock if you did that then, which is supposedly where by your own admissions you do not wish to go. Rather, crafting items that are specific versus certain categories of ability would be much better. You give examples of this already in posing the query: items good versus stun-heavy enemies (i.e. reflect stun effects upon attackers), for example.

Encountering an item that 'does X to The Rook' would smack of a gimmick.

Now, creating items that are FOR specific Demigods... THAT would be better. "Can only be used by" has potential. Gloves that make the Torch Bearer attack with multiple slightly weaker fireballs/iceballs rather than a single one, or that make his fireballs multiple slightly weaker ones that can launch against simultaneous targets and that makes his iceballs impart slowness of movement, or that adds a burst radius to his projectiles... .

Items that enhance a user (a positive) rather than specifically countering a Demigod (a negative) are better, imho.

As for Active flags, absolutely, if supplementary. I would say such things that would work best are implementations where either a constant passive bonus of some sort gets applied to your forces or Demigod, or some type of strategic ability of minimal to fair effect. This would be reminiscent of capturing the old spell towers from Battle For Middle-Earth, if I recall correctly. A further concept of having to build a structure in the viscinity in order to make use of such is laudable, although I would caution against a slight muddying of things when you ponder the question of what happens when such a flag changes hands. Can such a flag change hands if such a structure exists nearby? How much physical space does the structure occupy, and does it pose a blocking problem? Are they built in a specific location at the flag, rather than being placed by the player? Do they have defenses? Are they upgraded as the faction`s other structures are upgraded?

I would make any kind of active strategic power flag EXTREMELY rare, however - only certain maps, where their role is exceptional in the course of a Demigod game experience. I wouldn`t want this turning into a C&C nuking contest (or a World In Conflict tactical delivery contest). Keep the focus on the Demigods.

I don't think rings against specific demigods is a great idea because even if you are trying to focus fire on a specific demigod, say the rook, the torchbearer might come along and suddenly you are one item short against him because you have your rook ring. As for rings for specific effects like stun or slow or drain and other things like that, I believe that IS a good idea.

One interesting point about the DG rings though is that it would force teams to be different demigods. If everyone on the good team was the rook, then everyone on the evil team would have a rook ring, no question. This could be good or bad, depending on if you want unique demigods or not.

As for active flags, I think it is an interesting idea. Would there be a way for someone to give the flag to a team mate if he no longer wanted the special ability? Is there a way to tell who has these flags/abilities?

I think more specific information would be useful for both these topics if available.

Quoting OrleanKnight,

reply 3

If I was to buy a ring that would weaken the Armor of a Rook, it should only weaken the armor of a Rook and no other Demigod. We all know, a Torch Bearer or perhaps even a General without the right Armor is just a walking piece of paper ready to be torn apart. But what if the Rook is not going Armor heavy? What if he's going for High Damage and can one hit kill me? Then I'd want to Weaken his damage out put. But how the heck can I adjust this on the fly? Well, perhaps implementing the items can utilize a special building that gives you the ability to physically change the desired effect of your ring, or perhaps even a built in ability or Demi-Hunter Aura, with some slight penalties for the changes you wish to adjust.

Please forgive me, but I HATE this idea. This would go a great length to eliminating the overall approach of the game, in that any one Demigod is not really ideal versus another. Again, I don`t want to see Demigod transform into a paper/scissors/rock "did I purchase the right counter" rts, which right now it most certainly is not.

I don`t like the idea, nothing personal, to restate.

I have to say, no, no and more no. The main reason is that it prevents teams of all one Demigod. While you may say this is a good thing, I don't want to be forced to pick another Demigod because otherwise a team of anti-TB rings could demolish my team of TBs, just because we all happen to like to play the TB. The other reason is that it's an artificial rock-paper-scissors element which I feel is not justified and should absolutely be avoided. On the plus side, if the TB is OP, then your team can't spam the TB because a group of anti-TB ring users would own them, which is a self-countering OPness.

..

After some more consideration, it could add significant depth to the gameplay. However it still feels artificial, and still could lead to artificially limiting the number of X DGs on one team.

Could be for competitive only gameplay?

Edit:

As for active flags:

Nerf the ToL's damage (say each active flag gives a special ToL) but when in groups, their damage is increased once again for each ToL. So, each member of your team individually caps the active flag for such a special ToL. Now if you place them separately, they're pretty weak, but still a bonus (read, emergency item). However, if you were to group your ToLs up together, you could get 5 fully fledged ToLs in one spot (this is scaled for endgame btw). Then add in appropriate scaling.

The other thing this could be used to do is rebuild defences. ATM (at least in Beta 1) there is no way to replace your damaged defences, and a kill gives much gold to the enemy. However using this system you can effectively create your own fortifications, appropriately scaled.

Edit again to Warloklord:

The difference is you know what DGs your enemy has picked from day one and they cannot be changed. This is not the same as rock paper scissors in an RTS, because you cannot get it wrong. However it will add depth because in a 3vs3 battle, a lot of micro and skill can be made out of making your opponent target the right (or wrong) Demigod on your side, or blocking him from reaching the DG he counters, etc.

Now, creating items that are FOR specific Demigods... THAT would be better. "Can only be used by" has potential. Gloves that make the Torch Bearer attack with multiple slightly weaker fireballs/iceballs rather than a single one, or that make his fireballs multiple slightly weaker ones that can launch against simultaneous targets and that makes his iceballs impart slowness of movement, or that adds a burst radius to his projectiles... .

Items that enhance a user (a positive) rather than specifically countering a Demigod (a negative) are better, imho.

That is basically the same thing, but this is more gimmicky actually as this makes less customizability to the player not to mention the items designed to be for certain Demigods will ultimately judge their balance paths and effectiveness.

See, personally if a team is all playing as the same Demigod then I think it's a "good thing"(TM) if an item whacks them good. Demigod is, after all, a TEAM game and picking out Demigods that work well as part of a team should be part of the overall strategy.

So for instance, if everyone is playing as the Vampire lord, I would make use of the Ring of the Crucifix which gives the player some passive bonus no matter what but also has some sort of ranged weapon effect that works on all Demigods but is 2X effective on the Vampire Lord.

Obviously, we wouldn't create items that cripple Demigods. The objective is to create items that help differentiate between experienced players and new players.

I dislike the idea of items that can only be used for or against Demigods at all, items can and should be made with specific demigods in mind but to make it ony be efective vs 1 type almost appears to be cheating and reduces the depth of strategic choice. To use OrleanKnight's rook point, i would greatly prefer an item that reduces armor on attack, too any Demigod. Restricting it reduces the depth of that item.

In DotA the items are all (or mostly) geared with specific types of Demigods in mind, for instance if a hero has Vlads, Buriza and Diffusal Blade i can say very confidently that the hero is probably PL (excluding noobs). No-one gets buriza with naga, the other two items are made for heroes with copies or illusions and Geo would always have a mekanism. This kind of gearing of items is very fun and gives strategic depth, the main distinction is that although these items are made for certain types of heroes they are not exclusive ex. the other day i saw a Speccy with a difusal blade, which is not a bad idea but anyone who has played DotA will tell you it is a very debaitable move, it didn't work and we won by quite a bit but the point is he COULD use the item, even if its not made for Speccy.

An example in demigod is just making an item that reduces stun time by, for the sake of argument, 50% plus ather effects. This item would be used mostly for TB, Rook and Regulus but if someone wants the other effects they can buy the item and get its effects. The same thing wouldd happen for an item that adds a stun to attack, which will mostly be used for regulus, even though other Demigods will benefit.

These kinds of items have all the benefits of using hero specific items or effects, such as effectively counter teams of the same Demigod, without reducing the strategic choice

As for the idea of making rebuying more effective NO, NO and NO. A major part of the stragegy is buying the right items and knowing when to sell them, if you have to change your build tottally because of an enemies build then your build is BAD. You should have to pay for your rigid build and get less money back for reselling.

The Active Flags sound like a good idea but it will need to be well balanced. It could add something else to balance up in the great scheme of things.

EDIT:

Don't nerf the ToL's dmg, Up the ToL's dmg, if your not scared shitless every second you're near a ToL then its not strong enough.

I think if an item indirectly affects a specific demigod, then that's fair game. But making items specifically for particular demigods just doesn't seem right to me.

Maybe put an option in the options menu for "Demigod Specific Items" that can be turned on or off?

That is basically the same thing, but this is more gimmicky actually as this makes less customizability to the player not to mention the items designed to be for certain Demigods will ultimately judge their balance paths and effectiveness.

No, that'll actually increase customizability - if there's more than one option and they're mutually exclusive (as they should be - a demigod with 2 arms should not be able to wear 4 sets of gloves at the same time). Choosing between an item that will add a small splash effect or an item that will up the max range, for example, is another great way of customizing demigods to make two same Demigods, played by different people, distinct.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 11

See, personally if a team is all playing as the same Demigod then I think it's a "good thing"(TM) if an item whacks them good. Demigod is, after all, a TEAM game and picking out Demigods that work well as part of a team should be part of the overall strategy.

So for instance, if everyone is playing as the Vampire lord, I would make use of the Ring of the Crucifix which gives the player some passive bonus no matter what but also has some sort of ranged weapon effect that works on all Demigods but is 2X effective on the Vampire Lord.

Obviously, we wouldn't create items that cripple Demigods. The objective is to create items that help differentiate between experienced players and new players.

I have no clue how matchmaking will work but if there is a "random team" automatch mode like in warcraft its not the fault of the players. If the balance is done well a team of different Demigods will be stronger without such items.

Orc/Nightelve is better than dual Orc or Nightelve in Warcraft III, Aeon + Cybran better than dual Cybran or Aeon in Supreme Commander, Dual Terra is weaker than Terra/Protoss in Starcraft and so on, I doubt you even have to specifically balance for this it just happens because more options is better than having the same options twice. (the demigods need to be balanced on their own of course)

How does an Item which gives +Damage vs a specific Demigod increase the difference between an experienced and a new player, I don't really see it, all it will promote is exchanging lines with your allies using lots of townportals and trading items with them (if that is still in and working as it should now); or it ends up that Demigod A has the item which is good vs Demigod B and Demigod B has the item which is good vs Demigod A. Buying an item which gives such a general buff independent of the actual situation of a specific match doesn't really increase strategical choice. If you want items which increase it, it should be something around items like this:

1) reduce stun duration or give a chance to resist stuns (maybe as consumable)

2) an item which lets you create a doppelganger of yourself (takes double damage, deals no damage, has no vision on its own)

3) an consumable which negates all "on hit" abilities with a percental chance in a certain area, both own and those of enemies for some time

combined with and thats what imo would really add lots of strategical decisions:

4) an Consumable which lets you repick all your skills (or maybe 1 Skill-line)

5) an Item which increases the refund you get to 80-90%

4) and 5) allow to really adapt to your enemy instead of just picking items and skills once. They don't make your demigod better at all in an absolute sense but they make them better suited against the enemy picks (if you pick the right items and skills).

Maybe I am wrong and the anti-demigod items are indeed good, but I would be very surprised.

DatonKallandor,

Good point with Limb Counts (!). The same applies to wielding a gazillion weapons or wearing multiple cloaks (2 cloaks max. would be fine...). Of course, some measure of allowance might need to be made concerning the exact physical nature of the Demigod, whether or not it is a standard human form. Maybe that would get complex fast?

Frogboy,

Demigod or entity-specific items could be problematic to balance, purchase-wise and therefore game-wise. I am hopeful to assume that randomized item arrays will be hard-coded into the Demigod experience. I proceed from this basis.

(...btw, there are some things that ought to be hard-coded in the game, for the sake of sanity in choosing online game types and for presenting a certain baseline Demigod experience...)

If you have 'X' item with effects 1 and 2, selling for 5000 gold, and you add a Demigod specific supplementary effect to it, does that item have its cost increased? By how much? In other words, does the specific effect get reflected in the item`s cost, and is that a fair assessment of that item, even when its target is not in play? Perhaps a minor point, but... .

[SUGGESTION] A compromise: if you introduce such items, make them unique. And to balance one somewhat devious tactic, make it so that the target of special abilities *cannot* purchase that item. For example, a Vampire Lord on either side could *not* purchase the Ring Of The Crucifix.

I imagine I could accept such with the aforementioned randomization of items in place. Uniqueness would be good, to avoid everybody and his dog on the opposing team having a counter to (ostensibly) you; the player with that item now has a role to play due to that item possession. He`d be a fireman racing from area to area to try to counter Player 'Y'.

Purchasing items is of course an important part of Demigod. I just don`t want to see such purchases eclipse tactics, strategy, and abilities.

You shouldn`t be able to win the game in a shop...

I still think the whole Demigods going shopping thing breaks the game's flavour, and needs a bit of a rethink.

But on the specific matter, personally I think I would rather see items targetted against general abilities than particular Demigods (so a weak stun resist rather than a strong Rook boulder resist). Bonuses against a particular enemy seem like they would make battles a bit...arbitrary. Perhaps some way to increase a particular ability's cool down period if you think you're being cheaply one-shotted?

But, it's a beta, if you think it could work then put it in. If it isn't fun then you can always take it back out.

One thing I think would be quite interesting would be some specific tower killer or creep killer items. Not too powerful though, so as not to push out the Demigods with abilities in those particular area. Maybe just some little thing like resists arrows or whatever.

Also, have you considered having the trebuchet flags upgrade over time along with the other buildings?

Edit: I missed this the first time though:

"[SUGGESTION] A compromise: if you introduce such items, make them unique."

What if all artifacts were unique? It would bring a long-term useful benefit to controlling the artifact shop flag - get the item you want or deny it to enemies. As it is you just have to make a push in that direction when you have enough gold to buy your artifact, and ignore it the rest of the time.

Quoting Nights Edge,

reply 17

Edit: I missed this the first time though:

"[SUGGESTION] A compromise: if you introduce such items, make them unique."

What if all artifacts were unique? It would bring a long-term useful benefit to controlling the artifact shop flag - get the item you want or deny it to enemies. As it is you just have to make a push in that direction when you have enough gold to buy your artifact, and ignore it the rest of the time.

I`ve been a proponent of that for a long time...

(grin uniquely)

Slackers..... Well the ring idea may be good, but very annoying to the person who built their demigod to their liking. If someone where to build a demigod's skills such as stun based, and his or her enemies had rings that shut down the demigod he was using then he would be useless on the attack or defend. I think that these rings must be highly expensive when they are incorporated in the game because it sucks when you build your assassin or general and it is useless because of a measly ring.

I still think the whole Demigods going shopping thing breaks the game's flavour, and needs a bit of a rethink.

"[SUGGESTION] A compromise: if you introduce such items, make them unique."

What if all artifacts were unique? It would bring a long-term useful benefit to controlling the artifact shop flag - get the item you want or deny it to enemies. As it is you just have to make a push in that direction when you have enough gold to buy your artifact, and ignore it the rest of the time.

Yes, make all artifacts both unique and directly counterable, please.

At this point I'm hoping the artifact shop is a placeholder. It breaks immersion and also really dumbs down play to have a one-stop-shop for all your insanely powerful item needs.

Give me bunch of shops in neutral territory that offer only a few items each, require completion of miniquests or control of multiple flags to access, or simply make them dangerous to get to. Make unique neutral bosses that drop unique artifacts or guard the entrance to artifact shops. Drop a big rejuvenation pot when we kill our third DG in a row, give us the Unmaker when we kill our tenth.

Gold is good, but allow us the option of obtaining artifacts in other ways, and make it an actual challenge. Right now the connection isn't there.

In other news - I like active flags. Defensive structures, creep routes, mana trees, all very nice.

Specific Offensive Anti-DG rings are getting a lot of heat, but as previously mentioned, the idea could be implemented and if we still hate it *after we've played it* then they can take it right out again.

As a general issue to bring up, take a step back and let's discuss the programmatic capability.

So let's talk about the rings of power in a more generic light:

One option we've talked about is:

Ring of X: Does N veruses Demigods but does 2*N versus <Specific Demigod>

Ring of Y: Reduces damage by N% by enemy Demigods but reduces damage by 2*N% versus <Specific Demigod>

So programmatically, you would give the capability to have items that target specific Demigods.

Now, based on the responses here, some people don't like the idea of having items that are specifically targeting a Demigod.

So what kinds of items would you envision with the understanding that you can't go and make a huge chunk of code for each specific item. They have to be able to be developed much like what I explained above.

Certainly there ways to program defensive powers:

Ring Q: Reduces the effect of <Spell Type> by N%.

But the effect there is that it simply nerfs. We don't want the game to get into a stalemate but rather ways in which good players can magnify their damage too.

Frogboy:

It sort of depends on how the Rings of Power [ROP] are being implemented.

Are they the sort of thing any player could have mid-game?

Also, would each ROP be an IWIN button vs. a given DG, or would direct counters exist?

Finally, have the devs actually played a build with ROP or is it just a theoretical at this point?

Peace

But the effect there is that it simply nerfs.

But really, it's the same general idea as the first way, only you buff instead of nerf. In the first case, the TB player gets ring of 2x damage vs Rook, and the Rook player gets ring of 2x damage against TB. Now they both do more damage, but are still "equal". In the second case, TB gets ring of -physical damage, Rook gets ring of -spell damage and again, they're equal. The potential for a stalemate is just the same either way.

They are too.. specific, I guess is the word I would use. And because of that, they tend to feel artificial. Why not a general ring of "increases duration of stun effects" as one of its properties, and some other item that reduces them? Both rings are useful in their own right without targeting any specific Demigod. What about an item that "deals extra damage to all living targets"/"non-living targets"? This would at least give some more variety, we have some living Demigods (Regulus, Unclean Beast, Sedna, Queen of Thorns) and some non-living ones (Rook, Vampire Lord, Oak, Torch Bearer).

Anything that's a bit more general in use and application and can be rationalized in "lore" terms, basically. You can quite easily describe how a ring can bestow a magical barrier that helps shield the user from negative effects (thus shortening durations of debuffs), but how do you rationalize some ring that for some unknown reason deals 2x the damage against Unclean Beast but not Regulus? Is it coated in special rat poison that hurts the Beast more than Regulus? You see, it's kinda silly that way, and that's what makes it a bad fit, in my opinion.

Quoting Ke5trel,

reply 22

Frogboy:

It sort of depends on how the Rings of Power [ROP] are being implemented.

Are they the sort of thing any player could have mid-game?

Also, would each ROP be an IWIN button vs. a given DG, or would direct counters exist?

Finally, have the devs actually played a build with ROP or is it just a theoretical at this point?

Peace

Right now, it's just a concept we've internally been considering.

Right now, the tactics to kill other Demigods are the same as killing the reinforcements (creeps). What we want to do is introduce some skill/player experienced based elements that make dealing with opposing Demigods more interesting and more skill based.

But at the same time, we don't want to introduce such an element that would delay the game or require a lot of foreign translation work.

I just don't like the idea of having a ring to specifically "pick on" a specific demigod. A team might decide to all get a ring to gang up on a specific demigod and it could totally ruin the game for that one player.

I just came up with this idea. I haven't thought through many pros or cons yet, so let me know what you think.

maybe make 2 offensive rings of power and two/three defensive ones? in all these examples, x<y

offensive 1: increase dmg to assassins by x% and increase dmg to all generals' minions by y%

offensive 2: increase dmg to all generals' minions by x% and increase dmg to assassins by y%

defensive 1: decrease dmg recieved from assassins by x% and decrease dmg recieved from all generals' minions by y%

defensive 2: decrease dmg recieved from all generals' minions by x% and decrease dmg recieved from assassins by y%

(maybe) defensive 3: decrease damage from creeps by z%

and any person can only get one of these rings?

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